The Case For President Sergio Massa

[Jim Prideaux]

Corruption includes all the bribes that are paid to protect businesses and companies from competitors or to win contracts. That would include Narcotrafficking is also a large and growing source of revenue for politicians. It’s extensive. There’s no place it doesn’t reach. Corruption is the system of Argentina rather than a deviation from the system.

What is corruption for you?
Macri forgave debts of his own companies being a President.
Where there was an amnesty for money landry, he modified the law by decree to be able him and his family to get into the amnesty for money laundrey.
He has over 30 off shores companies not declared that are used to create fake debts in order to avoid income tax and do money flight.
He appoint the CEO of Shell at the energy Ministery that cancelled cheap gas contracts with Bolivia to replace them with expensive gas contracts wih Bolivia through Shell.
What are you talking about?
Is it public education, health and subsidies what you call corruption? Is it monetary sovereignty what you call corruption?

Macri and his father were chief beneficiaries of corruption. He may advocate fiscal responsibility but without addressing corruption as the core problem then you’re wasting your time.

 

[antipodean]

Massa is a thoroughly corrupt official who will first and foremost promote corruption. Corruption is the undoing of Argentina. It is the enemy of competition, which is why entrepreneurship and innovation do not exist here, nor economic growth. Massa for president? If you support corruption, then, yes. He’s your man.

Argentina… where the corrupt politicians have their own fan clubs and can win elections thanks to a roman-esque clientelista system of bribing and extorting the "poor" through hand outs and "subsidies", while forcing the "rich" to go through them to stay rich or make more money, keep everyone on the tit of the corrupt politicians.

Is it public education, health and subsidies what you call corruption? Is it monetary sovereignty what you call corruption?

Insauradle, a high-ranking Peronist politician, on a yacht in Marbella or Chocolate with his 49 debit cards or current Vice-President Cristina and her conviction are what I also call corruption. All from the same government/ party that Massa is also part of and a leader of. Perhaps you're not aware, but it is not a pre-requisite to tolerate politicians stealing public money just to have public education, health and subsidies nor monetary sovereignty.

How would the elites personally benefit from a CBDC? No more bribes, no cuevas, no $10K/day yachts, no drug money..

Such elites use 100 dollar bills that never touched a banking system, as they do today, poor plebs use CBDC pesos.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Argentina… where the corrupt politicians have their own fan clubs and can win elections thanks to a roman-esque clientelista system of bribing and extorting the "poor" through hand outs and "subsidies", while forcing the "rich" to go through them to stay rich or make more money, keep everyone on the tit of the corrupt politicians.


Insauradle, a high-ranking Peronist politician, on a yacht in Marbella or Chocolate with his 49 debit cards or current Vice-President Cristina and her conviction are what I also call corruption. All from the same government/ party that Massa is also part of and a leader of. Perhaps you're not aware, but it is not a pre-requisite to tolerate politicians stealing public money just to have public education, health and subsidies nor monetary sovereignty.


Such elites use 100 dollar bills that never touched a banking system, as they do today, poor plebs use CBDC pesos.

The opportunities for corruption are widespread now. It’s no longer the preserve of the elite, which makes it so entrenched. A lot of people get to “wet their beaks”. However, there are many more who do not and they suffer a lot.

 

[Redpossum]

Corruption includes all the bribes and pressure that are paid and exerted to protect businesses and companies from competitors or to win contracts. It inevitably includes narcotrafficking, which is a large and growing source of revenue for politicians. Corruption has also destroyed the judiciary, which is completely broken here. Any reform would require addressing that immediately as the current one enables corruption and rewards corrupt officials with impunity. There’s no place corruption doesn’t reach in Argentina. Corruption is the system of Argentina rather than a deviation from the system.

Rant 11c

(yawn)

Argentina… where the corrupt politicians have their own fan clubs and can win elections thanks to a roman-esque clientelista system of bribing and extorting the "poor" through hand outs and "subsidies", while forcing the "rich" to go through them to stay rich or make more money, keep everyone on the tit of the corrupt politicians.


Insauradle, a high-ranking Peronist politician, on a yacht in Marbella or Chocolate with his 49 debit cards or current Vice-President Cristina and her conviction are what I also call corruption. All from the same government/ party that Massa is also part of and a leader of. Perhaps you're not aware, but it is not a pre-requisite to tolerate politicians stealing public money just to have public education, health and subsidies nor monetary sovereignty.


Such elites use 100 dollar bills that never touched a banking system, as they do today, poor plebs use CBDC pesos.

Right. Cristina bad, Peronists bad, Argentina bad. We get it, Anti.
You're like Cato the Elder with his "Carthago delenda est".

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Rant 11c

(yawn)



Right. Cristina bad, Peronists bad, Argentina bad. We get it, Anti.
You're like Cato the Elder with his "Carthago delenda est".

So you’re disagreeing with the position that corruption is the number one problem of Argentina?

 

[Redpossum]

So you’re disagreeing with the position that corruption is the number one problem of Argentina?

This is one of those loaded questions like, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

Certainly corruption in government is a serious problem in Argentina, and every other nation in South America. But the politicians here are small-minded, kak-handed amateurs compared to the ones in North America and Europe. In my own hometown of San Diego, CA there were three major corruption scandals in the years leading up to my departure. The one involving what happened to the land when the Navy closed down NTC was worth 100 million dollars, at minimum. But I won't go into detail about that because it would be off-topic.

The point is that corruption is a constant in Argentina. Bajo Cero did a good job of tersely summarizing the corruption of Macri earlier in this thread. But any stick will do to beat an ugly dog, and so people like Anti get up on their favorite hobbyhorse and rant & rave against Cristina - Peronism - whatever scandal du jour is in the news right now. And they've been doing that for years, and it's always the same. And they do it randomly in any thread, on any subject.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Corruption includes all the bribes and pressure that are paid and exerted to protect businesses and companies from competitors or to win contracts. It inevitably includes narcotrafficking, which is a large and growing source of revenue for politicians. Corruption has also destroyed the judiciary, which is completely broken here. Any reform would require addressing that immediately as the current one enables corruption and rewards corrupt officials with impunity. There’s no place corruption doesn’t reach in Argentina. Corruption is the system of Argentina rather than a deviation from the system.

Interesting. The judicial power is coup by Macri. All the politicians arrested by narco trafficking belongs to Macri’s party. During Vidal’s administration a chopper of BA police was found in a Narco deposit at Paraguay.

 

[wrangler]

In my interaction with Argentines I have found that wages or purchases usually have an official part and an unofficial part and typically Argentines choose how much they want to make official and how much they earn under the table.

On the official earnings, they pay the full taxes. The digital peso will be like the official earnings: people will earn something, because they think it is better to show some activity than none, but the official earnings are only marginal. It appears as if everyone is enduring hardship.

Most money is made in black and this money will not go through the digital peso, but through cryptocurrencies (or USD in cash) over which the government has no control.

Even the politicians here only declare a fraction of what they have and earn. I do not understand why people think the use of a digital peso can be imposed for everything. The Argentines that receive their income from the government will be heavily impacted, because they cannot avoid the system. People with normal businesses will find ways to circumvent it.

This is exactly correct. Should the government attempt to force people to use, the exact happen will happen. People who can will transact with USDT or other crypto currencies or USD cash, as they are doing today. You are just going to create more business for the mercado negros.

 

[Stantucker]

This is one of those loaded questions like, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

Certainly corruption in government is a serious problem in Argentina, and every other nation in South America. But the politicians here are small-minded, kak-handed amateurs compared to the ones in North America and Europe. In my own hometown of San Diego, CA there were three major corruption scandals in the years leading up to my departure. The one involving what happened to the land when the Navy closed down NTC was worth 100 million dollars, at minimum. But I won't go into detail about that because it would be off-topic.

The point is that corruption is a constant in Argentina. Bajo Cero did a good job of tersely summarizing the corruption of Macri earlier in this thread. But any stick will do to beat an ugly dog, and so people like Anti get up on their favorite hobbyhorse and rant & rave against Cristina - Peronism - whatever scandal du jour is in the news right now. And they've been doing that for years, and it's always the same. And they do it randomly in any thread, on any subject.

It's so sad that you minimize the K corruption by trying to imply that they'll all the same and by taking great umbrage with those who mention said K corruption.

And all this ranting and raving coming from someone who never, and I repeat never, misses an opportunity to rail against Macri, Bullrich and Cambiemos.

 

[antipodean]

But any stick will do to beat an ugly dog, and so people like Anti get up on their favorite hobbyhorse and rant & rave against Cristina - Peronism - whatever scandal du jour is in the news right now. And they've been doing that for years, and it's always the same. And they do it randomly in any thread, on any subject.

I’d say people like Anti are just keeping it balanced when people start with the somewhat outdated “ah, pero Macri” theme randomly in any thread, like one about the Peronist, and CFKs 3IC, Sergio Massa’s presidential prospects

I’d say these scandals du jour of his political friends and colleagues who got him where he is today and form part of his party have a lot to do with the case for his presidency… much more so than whatever Macri (who is not even running indirectly in this election) may or may not have done.