The cost of living in Buenos Aires

[Ashley]

I experienced similar problems with inflation on my medical insurance. I took out a basic policy with Swiss for around 320 per month (+ a 30 peso premium every time I saw a doctor - something I was not told about when I signed up) in July 2009. The last bill I paid (last month) was 405 pesos and arrived with a letter informing me of a 30-something % increase from August 2010 onwards. Given that my salary hasn't gone up a jot over the past year, the policy was really eating into my budget. Fortunately I'm now covered by my husband's Swiss insurance from work.
Those of you still paying out might want to look into the group expat plan offered by Medicus. I have no personal experience, but from what I hear, it's pretty good and I don't think premiums are going up quite so dramatically as Swiss'.

 

[Ashley]

Actually as far as health insurance hikes go... if it weren't for them ordering an MRI every time someone stubs their toe (do you have any idea the ridiculous cost of running an MRI machine -- we're talking thousands of dollars every time it's turned on), if it weren't for them running reams and reams of tests that are unnecessary when there are cheaper and more effective ways of getting results, if it weren't for people getting their doctors to do a housecall when they have a sore throat, if it weren't for people going to their doctor because they just have a sniffle.... these are the things that would stop the hyperinflation of medical insurance costs.

If there's one thing you learn growing up with a doctor for a stepfather (and cousin, and sister etc) in a country with public healthcare (Canada) you learn not to abuse the system. The amount of abuse of the system when people have the attitude "well I'm paying for it, I might as well use it" is ridiculous, and of course of complete benefit to the private holding companies.

hehehe
I'm not sure this is the reason behind the price increases Syngirl...but I do agree that Argentine's see the doctor A LOT. In the UK, I wouldn't go to the doctor unless a limb was hanging off, pulse had all but disappeared, etc etc, but here it's perfectly acceptable to call out a doctor for a sore throat or bad cold.
On the plus side (and I'm not sure whether there is any data to back this up), the preventative medicine here is second to none. In the UK women are given a Pap every 3 years and blood tests are only performed once you've been having symptoms of something. My doctor here sends me for an annual routine blood test, pap, colposcopy, breast and ovarian ultrasound (and I'm still under 30). I'm pretty sure that if anything was wrong with me, it would take a lot longer to get picked up if I were still living in England.

 

[perry]

How much can people fool themselves that the costs of living are reasonable here when thousands of products are outrageously priced and combined with the salaries criminal . For this reason people live on bread, pasta and meat as anything else will send them bankrupt.

Just now when to a well known health food store in Palermo on Bulnes and Santa Fe .

Costs are Below

Chile Sauce from Nada Lerpes good quality 38 pesos ( US $ 9.75)

Apricot juice laden with sugar average quality 19 pesos ( US $ 4.85)

Almonds from Argentina good quality 98 pesos a kilo 300 grams ( US$ 7.85)

Total costs are US $ 23.00 for a very small amount of product.

 

[laureltp]

sorry to hear that! I guess it's either pay or public hospital. Oh, well...

Sorry Laurel, but when I signed up with OSDE in 2007 it was about 180 pesos a month -- now it's almost 500. It will only go up, they are out of control and since their private the government doesn't even seem interested i putting limits on how much they can raise the rates.

 

[darmanad]

How much can people fool themselves that the costs of living are reasonable here when thousands of products are outrageously priced and combined with the salaries criminal . For this reason people live on bread, pasta and meat as anything else will send them bankrupt.

I spend more than 1/2 my time living in Rio de Janeiro. Groceries are more expensive in Rio than BA. So are utilites, taxes for municipal services, restaurants, public transportation and taxis. And not by a little, but significantly. A lot of people, especially native Argentines, may in deed be having a hard time making ends meet, but that doesn't translate into BA being a relatively expensive city. It isn't. And the Mercer survey confirms that pretty conclusively. This is especially true when one considers that heavily taxed, non essential consumer electronics are comparatively very expensive here.

 

[syngirl]

Hmm ok well when I'm talking about abuse of the system I'm not talking about the paperwork you fill out, I'm talking about the abuse of doctor's time and the abuse of services by the doctor's themselves, not just the patients.

I'd have to investigate the medical system here, but in the USA, UK, and Canada there are 2 ways that doctors are paid:

1) Salary -- this is usually at community hospitals in the USA, and then depends on province in Canada

2) By procedure -- ie Fee For Service

This is more common in Canada and as far as I know the more popular system in the USA.

In Canada for instance, when you go and have a baby your doctor will get paid based on which procedure they do. ie Straight forward vaginal delivery is one price, Caesarian is another, a delivery with X complication another, they get paid for their follow up, they get paid for being on call, the Anaesthetist gets paid for being there (my sister has told me that while the rest of the team will let immigrants that aren't yet covered by Canada medicare go, the Anaesthestists have literally chased patients down the hallway to make sure they get paid their few thousand dollars!).

Then the hospitals have to pay for the running of all the lab work and the machines. An MRI costs between 3500 and 10000 USD to run, each time.

When you look at private medical insurance all of these costs are not covered by the government and by taxes, they are passed onto YOU, the subscriber.

The doctors in a private system are making money from the insurance company -- the more labs, tests, procedures they run, the more money they make. This is the abuse of the system that leads to YOU paying more in health insurance fees.

I have not fully investigated the system here in Argentina, but those doctors working with private plans make more money than the guys at the private hospitals, and I can only imagine it's because the system is similar to that of the USA -- run an MRI? Make 50 bucks, see 50 patients in a day? Make X number of dollars for each one.

Every time you go to a doctor here you sign your receipt at the doctor's office after they swipe your insurance card. Those receipts go off to the company, they pay the doctors based on visits and procedures. OSDE etc start losing ground on the margin between what patients are paying in insurance and how much they are paying out to the MDs, and then your prices get jacked.

It's all a business, it's not about keeping patients healthy. It's about making money.

 

[laureltp]

I think we've covered this topic pretty well in other posts. I think the general conclusion is that compared to the cost of living in other cities Buenos Aires is relatively cheap, so if you have dollars/euros it's pretty good. But, when you look at the buying power of the average local salary the city is very expensive for those who earn an average salary in pesos.

 

[Digger]

How much can people fool themselves that the costs of living are reasonable here when thousands of products are outrageously priced and combined with the salaries criminal . For this reason people live on bread, pasta and meat as anything else will send them bankrupt.

Totally second you on this Perry. I dunno maybe these are all millionaire expats coming from places like Monaco and Tokyo...

Filling up a supermarket trolley in here is dearer than US, Australia, France, Spain and you get substandard produce.

Drinking a coffee is dearer than in most international cities, everything is soo expensive and rising every week. Only thing cheap are wines.

 

[mini]

I spend more than 1/2 my time living in Rio de Janeiro. Groceries are more expensive in Rio than BA. So are utilites, taxes for municipal services, restaurants, public transportation and taxis. And not by a little, but significantly. A lot of people, especially native Argentines, may in deed be having a hard time making ends meet, but that doesn't translate into BA being a relatively expensive city. It isn't. And the Mercer survey confirms that pretty conclusively. This is especially true when one considers that heavily taxed, non essential consumer electronics are comparatively very expensive here.

The salaries in Brazil are higher than here as well. The Mercer survey is only relative if you are earning US$, not the local salary, I imagine. I think the PPP survey is more relevant.

 

[sergio]

I've been back in the US for over a month and I can tell you that you can live on less money here as far as food is concerned. There are constant specials in the supermarket, constant. Packages are substantially larger and prices are comparable or often much lower than what you pay in Argentina. A few things are more but you can avoid these. The quality and variety are far, far better for almost everything. If you want to spend a little more supermarkets like WHOLE FOODS are a real pleasure to shop in. Everything is top quality and there is an army of young people stocking shelves, greeting customers and trying to help. The selection of cheese alone is astonishing - and the prices of imported cheese (infinitely more variety than you can get in Argentina) is less than you pay in Argentina. I see Argentine wines in the shops for the same price as in Argentina, maybe less. Plenty of quality wine from all over the world and a lot priced around $10-$12. Yes, restaurants can be cheaper in BA but they are creeping up rapidly and soon are going to be on a par with the US. I just don't understand how expats can deny the reality that food in BA is no longer cheap. You can cite examples here and there of lower prices but the overall picture is not good. Then you need to factor in the low wages which makes food all the more expensive when you are earning on the local economy.