Pabloc said:
With all due respect, yes the ruling " does allow corporations (and people, by the way) to spend their money how they see fit to voice their own views." However, corporations are not people conferred "free speech" and therefore are not oppressed by governments or large entities that can bully. Corporations are entities. They are "things." They are motivated by profit. They have unlimited pooled resources to pitch their viewpoint that preserves their profits and continues their existence, which to me is fine! But they are not what the founders of the constititution intended to be given the same rights as people. It is hard to say what the impact will be of this radical decision. This is an example of the very judicial activism Republicans constantly whine about! As Bob Dylan observed, "Money doesn't speak, it swears". It will swear even more in the next election! Look out for the massive JP Morgan ads!
Do you not understand that the ruling that was overthrown was because of a documentary put on by a citizen's group that happened to be incorporated, not by some "evil corporation." They wanted to put the information they had about what they felt Hilary Clinton was really like - not just the public face she puts on. But that was too much like a campaign add int he original court's decision so it was censored.
Funny thing is, when the liberal movie makers made a movie about George Bush being assassinated that came out at a similar time, conservatives didn't get all up in arms, but the liberals sure did when the conservatives wanted to attack Mrs Clinton. The crap about Bush was blatant fantasizing and a message about how liberals really felt about Bush and the Republicans. It was meant to subconciously affect the decisions of those who were in between, to nudge them the other way. It was made by rich Hollywood vacuum heads within a corporation. But that's ok, right? It spreads YOUR message, so you don't want to censor that.
Yeah, see, it's always ok to censor when it's going to hurt YOUR side but not the other way around.
People own corporations. Corporations have always been treated as persons in the body of law of the US, with most of the rights of citizens. But that's ok, throw that out as well, right? Let's only pay attention to the part of the law that YOU want to pay attention to.
Pabloc said:
About the special deals of the Dems-- yes many on the left are outraged too. That is why the House Dems wont vote for the Senate bill as is. But of course Fox Noise doesnt report this. It also doesnt report the fact that the Republicans simply dont care that many die in the US because of inadequate health care and the fact that small businesses cannot afford to provide it to employees because the rates go up 25% a year (without exaggeration--if the Repubs cared about the health care crisis in America they would have tried to offer some solution but they never have). The Republicans offer NO alternative at all for health care simply because they really dont care about small businesses or the average American (the same can be said of some Democrats too, especially in the Senate)
Many of the left are outraged? Including Obama? LOL. Give me a break. That's why they put the special deals in to begin with! The Democrats on the left are not outraged, it's the Democrats IN THE MIDDLE that are outraged.
Do you actually WATCH Fox News? Because dude, they DO report about those Democrats that won't vote for the bill, as well as WHY. They are very thankful for those Democrats who see reason because that's is the only thing from keeping something that a good percentage in the country see as a disaster. But that's ok, keep spreading lies about Fox news and enough people will believe it.
Your statement that many Republicans don't care about people dying due to insufficient health care is as ridiculous as the Republican claim that there were going to be death panels. But that's ok for you to say that and believe that, because that's what YOUR SIDE says.
You say Republicans don't care about small business?? Are you out of your mind?? You mix up rich industrialists, which don't fall along "Republican" lines - both parties have their rich assholes, with fiscal conservatives. Fiscal conservatives know that small businesses are the back bone of the country and they fear what the far left is trying to do with health care because they honestly believe that it is going to be a disaster. That it will end up killing small businesses.
Look at Argentina. Small businesses here consist of mom and pop places for the most part. Due to idiotic government mandating of so many things, small businesses here don't employ very many people outside their family because they are afraid to! There's too much exposure!
You have swallowed Obama's propoganda hook, line and sinker. The Republicans haven't any proposals of their own? Really?? Is that what Obama and the oh so open media has been telling you?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124277551107536875.html
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/52896
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...lican-health-care-plans-8224780-58644807.html
http://dailycaller.com/2010/01/27/r...duce-alternative-to-health-care-and-spending/
For crying out loud - the Democratic party had a SUPER MAJORITY. There was not one thing the Republicans could have done in congress to block the healthcare plan.
In fact, Obama keeps repeating that there is no Republican plan - and yet there is. Why does he say that? Because he doesn't like what the Republicans have offered. Since Democrats effectively controls the government right now, they won't LET the Republicans present their plan.
Yeah, the poor, evil Republicans. Blocking everything. Learn something about politics dude! Obama can't pass this because there are a lot of Democrats who know the plan that is offered isn't really going to fix anything, is going to put us so much farther in debt that we will be paying for it for decades, and is a step toward socialism that many (not just Republicans!) don't want to take.
Pabloc said:
The Republican philosophy is very JUSTICIALISTA....just like the Justicialistas made it impossible for the Radicals under Alfonsin to run the country through general strikes, mafias, and bad faith-- the Republicans are taking the same approach to governing in the US. The strategy of the extreme Republicans (which is all of what is left in the party) is not to create jobs or make life better for Americans. They just OBSTRUCT. That is it. Win at all costs. Spread lies on Fox News that death panels will kill grandmothers! (yes, in the US, retired folks are screaming on Fox News to keep the government away from their Medicare --a govt program!! The same party that believes it is un-American to distinguish between a handgun and an AK-47! To give you some more perspective, creationism is taken seriously in the Republican Party The majority of the presidential candidates in the Rpub party in 2008 didnt believe in EVOLUTION!) No alternatives at all are being offered to help Americans. The goal of the Republicans is simply to win at all costs, help the huge companies that give them money, and continue bleeding the US with a truly senseless war in Iraq and policies that play directly to the rich. They dont care about small businesses or middle income people. Dont get me wrong...Many of the Dems are really republicans in philosophy and getting the Dems to agree is like herding cats.
So you're likening loyal opposition to mafia, strikes (which the liberals love to use to get their way!!! What are unions dude? Is that a Republican invention???) and beating people up that don't agree with you? Not just a little propoganda there, eh?
And it's so easy to take a portion of the Republican party that doesn't believe in evolution, who are admitedly idiots, and liken them to everyone who is a conservative and/or a Republican? Good god dude, in one sentence you castigate the Republicans and Fox news for the Death Squads related to health care and repeat the other side's propoganda like it's the "gospel truth"!
I actually find that to be very offensive. I am a conservative (though not a Republican) and a man of science. Should I start saying that all the people on theleft believe that crystals are a magical healing source and that they want to force this on everyone? Believe me, there are plenty of liberals (and I don't think you'll find a single Republican or conservative) who believes in crap like that.
Pabloc said:
And the Republican strategy is working!! Spread the lies and eventually they stick. Of course, the Dems-- like the Radicales-- are such wimps that they just turn the other cheek and look like fools. And Obama is always just full of hot air and in that wimpy tradition which is why he is afraid to take the bull by the horns and get America out of Iraq and at least reduce to a minimum our presence in Afghanistan. Guantanamo is still there and it will be forever.
Obama and the far left (NOT the Democrats - I believe the far left has hijacked the democrats just as you seem to believe the far right has hijacked the Republicans) are trying to change the country, whether the country wants to be changed or not.
Listen to Nancy Pelosi saying that they are going to pass the healthcare bill whatever they have to do - whether they have to tunnel under the fence, catapult over or parachute in (to paraphrase her words). No matter that a good majority of the public don't want the kind of healthcare the far left is pushing - but that's not what the people really want, right?
Those damned Republicans and conservatives, always getting in the way. Some mixup about free speech and all - that's not what they are doing, not speaking the truth as they see it! No way! Let's do whatever we can to make sure those evil conservatives pricks don't get their thoughts out because anything that will complicate what the "good guys" on the far left want for the country is bad - it will just confuse the poor, ignorant people who don't know any better.
What really pisses me off about all this is that no one on the left actually thinks that the Republicans are doing everything they can to block what the far left Democrats are doing because they are patriots and are seriously in FEAR of what those leftists are doing. They completely ignore anything said bad against Obama and the other far leftists and believe the worst of what is truly a loyal opposition.
When you talk about health care and the Republicans blocking it - rmember back to something that Obama said in his speeches over and over. "When we debate the health bill, it will be open to public scrutiny. It will be on C-Span" (I'm paraphrasing not quoting because I don't have the exact words in front of me).
Whatever happened to that?
He also said "You will have the right to whatever doctor or health plan that you want." (again paraphrasing). In the chat with republican congressmen last week, Obama admitted that somehow provisions that would prevent exactly this had gotten into the bill. Wow. Imagine that. One of the many "lies" the Republicans were telling all this time was actually true, admitted by the president himself.
Why don't the Democrat want to tackle tort reform? Did you know that in Texas, they passed a law limiting pain and sufferng for medical case payouts to $250,000? Not a limit on continued care for whatever happened to the person. Not a limit on whatever the person needs to recover or survive whatever happened to him or her - just the pain and suffering part. Do you know what it did? It upped competition in the state for insurance companies and doctors. Both are flooding to Texas because of this law.
Why won't the Democrats touch this? Because most trial lawyers are Democrats and it wold be taking away a lot of their payday.
Obama says he wants to include the Republicans but he doesn't. Not at all. He doesn't feel that he has to. He wants to lie and make a show that he is, but the reality is he is completely excluding the Republicans from the process because he can and it's the only chance he has of passing the health reform AS HE SEES IT MUST BE. He doesn't want to argue and debate ANY of it.
Think about it - soething SO IMPORTANT and SO COSTLY - we had to have it done before the end of the year supposedly. Why? Why were we in such a rush for something so important? The real answer is everyone knows that 2010 is an election year and that the Democrats are going to lose seats in the House and Senate - it happens with just about every presidential administration that the party in the White House loses a bit in midterm elections. The far left knew that they had a small window to push this on the American people and if they didn't rush it, it would most likely fail.
Was health care really so much more important than the economy and the disaster that both Democrats and Republicans left us (and yes, Bush didn't do anything to curb it - but Democrats under Clinton in the 90s had a lot to do with it also, somehow that enver gets out)? Was healthcare so important that Obama and the Democrats should ahve practically ignored or delayed everything else to get it passed before the freaking August break in his FIRST YEAR in office?
Try to learn to think critically. There is horrible stuff being done on both sides of the fence. The Republicans digging in deep and doing everything they can to keep a shitty piece of legislation from passing because they believe that it will ruin the country is not a bad thing unless they are lying about something. So far I have seen exaggerations, but no outright lies. And there are good reasons to fear that a group of people would have the power to make those decisions under what the Democrats are proposing - the more outrageous parts anyway, that were eventually culled from the bill - thanks to Republican outrage.
However, there are plenty of lies that have been told by the Democrats. Ask them again why they haven't passed the bill - are the Republicans really stopping them when until a day or two ago they didn't even have enough votes in the Senate to filibuster and STILL don't have enough votes to prevent the passage of the bill?
Give me a break!!!!!
