The effects of overstaying tourist visa and being "illegal"

[Bajo_cero2]

Wouldn't the worker also be breaking tax law by working in " negro " and not paying taxes on his income ? That would be my understanding.

No, the worker is the victim. Is the employer who has to pays his taxes. Income tax is payed only over certain amount of money.
Regards

 

[gunt86]

Income tax is payed only over certain amount of money.

Do you know what the maximum amount of money is before someone has to pay income tax? At what amount of money does someone have to start paying tax?

 

[French jurist]

Do you know what the maximum amount of money is before someone has to pay income tax? At what amount of money does someone have to start paying tax?

Single ? Married ? What kind of income (empleado ?).

A single empleado starts to contribute from an net income of 4800 pesos.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1283081

 

[marrokome]

Hi, I am a lawyer and since the new decreto 616-2010 was enacted I was reserching at the Supreme Court library the precedents of the last 100 years.

Forget about the migration office and the migration law, it is a waste of time.

Argentina is a unique case in the world because the National Constitution is focus on fomenting immigration.

For this reason civil rights are equal between citizens and inhabitants, as an example of mi assert. The only difference is that you cannot vote or being elected for mayor, governor, president, etc.

However, the immigration administrative law allow your deportation. And you may have problems related to the lack of proper legal knowledge the police officers may have. In fact they have no idea.

So, the best is to stop wasting time at the immigration office and start to claim your right at Court.

After 2 years of residence (actually living here, doesn´t matter the immigration status) you are able to apply for citizenship.

The procedure is fast, for free and simple, only if you full fit the requisites the federal judge with jurisdiction over your address ask. It vary from judge to judge. 90% of them won´t accept your case in this free procedure, so the solution is to start a case.

Another possible escenario is to ask for a restriction order (not exactly this, but it is easier to explain this way) against the migration office.

I offer this services and this is affordable. You can contact me by PM.

Regards

*****************************************************

 

[musica1]

Greetings,

It seems that one could obtain Chilean residency, (where the minimal income for Rentista is half of what it is now in Argentina, and even less in the south of Chile), and then obtain working and residence benefits in Argentina.

Please someone correct me and/or enlighten me if I am wrong.

Thanks in advance...

 

[Bajo_cero2]

If I understand correctly, there is a constitutional provision that anyone who has been in Argentina for two years without leaving the country may be granted citizenship, but they must appear before a judge, demonstrate the ability to read and speak Spanish, and provide "evidence" that they can support themselves "above the poverty line" (whatever that may be). I am not certain what individual judges consider sufficient income.

The requisites you mention are regarded a law that is not longer valid.
The old 346 (1869) migration law is valid and its decreto 3213.
The requisites are:

Art. 3° — Los extranjeros designados en el artículo 2° inciso 1° de la Ley N° 346, al tiempo de solicitar su naturalización deberán cumplimentar las siguientes condiciones:
a) tener dieciocho (18) años de edad cumplidos
b) residir en la República dos (2) años continuos
c) manifestar ante los jueces federales su voluntad de serlo.

Son causas que impedirán el otorgamiento de la ciudadanía argentina por naturalización, las siguientes:

a) no tener ocupación o medios de subsistencia honestos (It means you donpt make your money selling drugs, if you work but you don´t pay taxes, this is a legal way of life)
b) estar procesado en el país, o en el extranjero por delito previsto en la legislación penal argentina, hasta no ser separado de la causa.
c) haber sido condenado por delito doloso, ya fuere en el país o en el extranjero, a pena privativa de libertad mayor de tres (3) años, salvo que la misma hubiere sido cumplida y hubieren transcurrido cinco (5) años desde el vencimiento del término de la pena fijada en la condena o hubiere mediado amnistía.
No podrá negarse la ciudadanía argentina por motivos fundados en razones políticas, ideológicas, gremiales, religiosas o raciales, en acciones privadas o en caracteres físicos de los solicitantes; sin perjuicio de ello, el Juzgado inteviniente podrá denegar la solicitud cuando estuviere plenamente probado que el causante realizó actos de carácter público que significaron la negación de los derechos humanos, la sustitución del sistema democrático, el empleo ilegal de la fuerza o la concentración personal del poder.

Do you remember we were debating about if a British citizen might be able for citizsenship? The answer is yes. There was a law that was enacted by the dictator Videla (known as ley Videla), that law was declared illegal and erased from the legal system.

That law forbidden citizenship to citizens of a country we had a war with. And the requisites you mention are regarding that erased law:

ARTICULO 5.- Los extranjeros podrán obtener la nacionalidad argentina, cuando se acredite:
a) ser mayores de DIECIOCHO (18) años de edad;
b) tener DOS (2) años de residencia legal continuada en el territorio de la República;
c) poseer buena conducta;
d) tener medios honestos de vida;
e) saber leer, escribir y expresarse en forma inteligible en el idioma nacional;
f) conocer, de manera elemental, los principios de la Constitución Nacional;
g) no ser sordomudos que no puedan darse a entender por escrito, dementes o personas que, a criterio
del tribunal interviniente, estén disminuidas en sus facultades mentales;
h) no haber sido condenados en la República por delitos dolosos a una pena privativa de libertad
mayor de TRES (3) años, aunque la condena haya sido cumplida o mediado indulto o amnistía;
i) no haber sido condenados en el extranjero por delitos dolosos previstos en la legislación penal
argentina y reprimidos por ésta con pena privativa de libertad mayor de TRES (3) años, aunque la
condena haya sido cumplida o mediado indulto o amnistía;
j) no integrar, ni haber integrado, en el país o en el extranjero, grupos o entidades que por su doctrina o
acción aboguen, hagan pública exteriorización o lleven a la práctica, el empleo ilegal de la fuerza o la
negación de los principios, derechos y garantías establecidos por la Constitución Nacional y, en
general, que no realicen ni hayan realizado actividades de tal naturaleza, en el país o en el extranjero;
k) no estar procesados en la República, o en el extranjero por delitos previstos en la legislación penal
argentina, hasta que no sean separados de la causa;
l) no ser, ni haber sido, nacionales de un país que se encuentre en guerra contra la Nación Argentina.

I haven't heard of anyone who has been making the trips to Colonia to "renew" their tourist visa who has applied for citizenship. Though Bajo Cero asserts is possible to start a case on this basis, the outcome is, of course, uncertain. I only know of one expat who is applying for citizenship now. He has an investor visa and is close to having two years without leaving the country. For you to live in Argentina for two years without leaving would obviously mean overstaying you present 90 day visa by 640 days. That would certainly not constitute legal immigration status.

Legal ... there is not such a thing as illegals humans in this country.
Read this:
http://edant.clarin.com/diario/2004/01/05/o-02502.htm

So, according to that newspaper article, there is no risk of claiming your rights at Cort because there is not such a thing as illegals. The point is that migration agents had a lot of power until a few years ago, they don´t accept (psychological) that they are almost useless.

By the way, these are the relevant constitutional articles:

Artículo 14- Todos los habitantes de la Nación gozan de los siguientes derechos conforme a las leyes que reglamenten su ejercicio; a saber: De trabajar y ejercer toda industria lícita; de navegar y comerciar; de peticionar a las autoridades; de entrar, permanecer, transitar y salir del territorio argentino; de publicar sus ideas por la prensa sin censura previa; de usar y disponer de su propiedad; de asociarse con fines útiles; de profesar libremente su culto; de enseñar y aprender.
Artículo 16- La Nación Argentina no admite prerrogativas de sangre, ni de nacimiento: No hay en ella fueros personales ni títulos de nobleza. Todos sus habitantes son iguales ante la ley, y admisibles en los empleos sin otra condición que la idoneidad. La igualdad es la base del impuesto y de las cargas públicas.
Artículo 20- Los extranjeros gozan en el territorio de la Nación de todos los derechos civiles del ciudadano; pueden ejercer su industria, comercio y profesión; poseer bienes raíces, comprarlos y enajenarlos; navegar los ríos y costas; ejercer libremente su culto; testar y casarse conforme a las leyes. No están obligados a admitir la ciudadanía, ni pagar contribuciones forzosas extraordinarias. Obtienen nacionalización residiendo dos años continuos en la Nación; pero la autoridad puede acortar este término a favor del que lo solicite, alegando y probando servicios a la República.
Artículo 25- El Gobierno Federal fomentará la inmigración europea; y no podrá restringir, limitar ni gravar con impuesto alguno la entrada en el territorio argentino de los extranjeros que traigan por objeto labrar la tierra, mejorar las industrias, e introducir y enseñar las ciencias y las artes.
Artículo 28- Los principios, garantías y derechos reconocidos en los anteriores artículos, no podrán ser alterados por las leyes que reglamenten su ejercicio.
Artículo 75-
Será obligación del Congreso:
inc 18.Proveer lo conducente a la prosperidad del país, al adelanto y bienestar de todas las provincias, y al progreso de la ilustración, dictando planes de instrucción general y universitaria, y promoviendo la industria, la inmigración, la construcción de ferrocarriles y canales navegables, la colonización de tierras de propiedad nacional, la introducción y establecimiento de nuevas industrias, la importación de capitales extranjeros y la exploración de los ríos interiores, por leyes protectoras de estos fines y por concesiones temporales de privilegios y recompensas de estímulo.20

I am starting 3 cases at Court this week, so you will have news my friend. One of somebody who is"illegal", a regular Colonia visitor and a British citizen.

Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

Legal ... there is not such a thing as illegals humans in this country.
Read this:
http://edant.clarin.com/diario/2004/01/05/o-02502.htm

So, according to that newspaper article, there is no risk of claiming your rights at Cort because there is not such a thing as illegals. The point is that migration agents had a lot of power until a few years ago, they don´t accept (psychological) that they are almost useless.

Thank you for the detailed response.


Perhaps no one can be an "illegal" but is it legal or not for a non Mercosur foreigner to be in Argentina without a "valid" visa?

If migraciones is "almost useless" what about someone who enters Argentina on a 90 day tourist visa and stays in Argentina for 18 months? When they leave they must pay the overstay fine. Does migraciones have the power to deny them reentry into Argentina (perhaps permanently as Alex has asserted in related threads)?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Perhaps no one can be an "illegal" but is it legal or not for a non Mercosur foreigner to be in Argentina without a "valid" visa?

I suggest we abandon the word illegal because it it related to criminality. In other countries they criminalize irregular immigration. But this only an irregularity, so I suggest we start using the word "irregular". Why? An irregularity can be solved, simple like that. A crime must be prosecuted and punished. So, irregular is the proper word, as I explained since I started posting in this forum, the "falsos turistas" or "falsos ilegales" (irregulars) can be regularized.

The is a confusion, you don´t need a visa to get into Argentina. Americans pays a fee in reciprocity because they charge argentinians for the visa application.

What you have is an administrative permit to stay like the american I-94.

It is legal for any human been to live in Argentina no matter where is he or she from.

Understand this, the Constitution is a bill of rights, why do they wrote such a document as the supreme law of the country, because any person with power has a tendency to abuse of his power. The migration decreto 616-2010 we were debating last month is an abuso of power. You find at the Constitution the list of protected rights and the remedies. Habeas Corpus is the main one against illegal arrest. Amparo is the equal for illegal law, decreto, administrative acts. So, you have the tools to enforce your own rights though Court. And there is a hierarchy among laws. 1) Constitutión and human right treatries 2) Federal Law 3) Decreto

If migraciones is "almost useless" what about someone who enters Argentina on a 90 day tourist visa and stays in Argentina for 18 months?

He will have to pay a fine. The issue is when somebody does "La gran Colonia" because they have the power to deny your entry, they might give you a few days, etc. They might banned you. You can claim an habeas Corpus and go before a judge.

If you read the newspaper article I posted, there explain very well how the new migration law toke off police power from the migration agency and the President through decreto gave DGM those powers again.

When they leave they must pay the overstay fine. Does migraciones have the power to deny them reentry into Argentina (perhaps permanently as Alex has asserted in related threads)?

Yes. You can appeal it. That´s why I reccomend to sto doing "la gran Colonia". Don´t expose yourself.