The Ghost of Peronism: Why Argentina Keeps Making the Same Mistakes

Redpossum

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Couldn't agree more, and perhaps what is so frustrating, my own being ethnically Italian bias aside, is that the communist partisans were the people fighting domestically to liberate Italy from both Mussolini and the 3rd Reich's client state, The Italian Social Republic.

Post WW2, every time Italy thought about going even slightly left wing, NATO, Uncle Sam, and those ghouls the Dulles Brothers made sure that didn't happen by repurposing literal SS officers and fascists to either assault and firebomb leftists/their offices, or straight up murder them as part of Operation Gladio.

Even when they tried to win democratically they were black balled, along with anyone who dared to cooperate with them, such as PM Aldo Moro, who was politically threatened by the US and the rest of Europe if he worked with the Communist Party in 1976, as covered in this NY Times piece, and apparently he was personally threatened too, in the sense that he could wind up dead. Moro would live for only 2 years after this article, at which point he was kidnapped and murdered, with people believing the Brigate Rosse were as responsible for his death as Lee Harvey Oswald for JFK's.

Another fun fact about the clusterfuck that was Italy during the Anni di piombo (Years of Lead) was that there was a giant through line of international fascists, the Catholic Church, and Argentine Peronists/fascists working together via what is commonly known as the P2 Masonic Lodge, whose members included former Italian PM Berlusconi, bankers, newspaper owners, the former Argentine President Raul Alberto Lastiri, junta members/Dirty War war criminals Emilio Massera and Guillermo Mason, and Minister of Social Welfare/Isabel's personal Rasputin, Jose Lopez Rega. The lodge was commonly seen as Italy's deep state like the ISI is in Pakistan today.

The idea that Peron/OG Peronists were remotely communist would be hilarious if it weren't so naive, and even now you can't call the Ks socialist or communist, this fails the basic smell test as socialism is the foundation laid to create a classless, dictatorship of the proletariat with the workers controlling the means of production, and the Ks have not come even close to this; hell, the minimum wage and pensions were higher under Macri than Alberto, does that make him comrade Mauricio now?

But I digress; corporate media, the wealthy, and their stooges (Javier Milei and the "libertarian" gang) have contrived to convince people that socialism/communism is the source of all evil here when we've never even had a socialist president, and at present have only 4 leftist members of Congress and 0 Senators. I'll finish off by saying Menem's administration was one of the most financially irresponsible in human history, but does anyone, even Milei think he was a commie? No, instead he calls Domingo Cavallo (Menem's Finance Minister) an "Argentine Patriot" lol. That should tell you all you need to know about their anti-socialist/communist grift.
Cavallo was also the architect of the Corralito under De La Rua
 

Agribotics

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Free money is a foreign concept here in Taiwan. The belief is that 'free money' always has to be paid back with a inflation tax and the only way to truly be wealthy is to create real wealth in the form of goods and services. That's how an island of 23 million with no natural resources is an economic powerhouse and nations with far more natural resources are perpetually mired in penury.
 

TWB103

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Argentina is essentially communist. When people depend more economically and spiritually on the State than their family and community then they are living under socialism.

The US is in rapid decline as socialism takes hold and surprise surprise it's becoming more like Argentina by the day.
 

Redpossum

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Argentina is essentially communist. When people depend more economically and spiritually on the State than their family and community then they are living under socialism.

The US is in rapid decline as socialism takes hold and surprise surprise it's becoming more like Argentina by the day.

A simple yes or no question - do you actually live in Argentina?
 

matiasnino

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"In the early 1900's Argentina was one of the wealthiest countries in the world.... then PERONISM came along"

LMAO. Argentina was a perfect harmonious paradise with no problems until Peronism came and permanently ruined everything. God what a childish ignorant view of history.

These articles and publications that basically reduce all of history's calamities as stemming from specific political parties, movements, and their "evil" root ideologies are basically just mindless propaganda that offer no real insights into the complexities and persistent problems of nations, governments, and cultural changes throughout history.

It is only through learning about these complexities and historical lessons, and then committing to solutions designed through compromise that democracies will ever be able to overcome these persistent historical problems.
 

Ries

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Argentina is essentially communist. When people depend more economically and spiritually on the State than their family and community then they are living under socialism.

The US is in rapid decline as socialism takes hold and surprise surprise it's becoming more like Argentina by the day.
I guess words no longer have any meaning. "communist" actually has a definition. And there are a few actual communists in Argentina, but they have no political clout.
The USA is currently a center right country, as is its current President.
Actual Socialism is obviously another word whose definition seems to have mysteriously gotten lost.
Center Left countries, like, say Finland, are still not "socialist", but, instead, social Democratic.
Me, I love Argentina, I dont care what they say.
 

TWB103

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I guess words no longer have any meaning. "communist" actually has a definition. And there are a few actual communists in Argentina, but they have no political clout.
The USA is currently a center right country, as is its current President.
Actual Socialism is obviously another word whose definition seems to have mysteriously gotten lost.
Center Left countries, like, say Finland, are still not "socialist", but, instead, social Democratic.
Me, I love Argentina, I dont care what they say.
I guess words no longer have any meaning

...thanks to the progressive post modernist world we are living in.

If I want communism and socialism to mean the same thing then they will. If someone disagrees with me I'll have then cancelled for denying 'my truth'. lol.

Hopefully the next Democrat President will be 'centre left'.. or the next.. or the next.. keep wishing.
A simple yes or no question - do you actually live in Argentina?
Obnoxious. I am at the very least as qualified to speak of Argentina as tourist boomers are.
 
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Ries

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I guess words no longer have any meaning

...thanks to the progressive post modernist world we are living in.

If I want communism and socialism to mean the same thing then they will. If someone disagrees with me I'll have then cancelled for denying 'my truth'. lol.

Hopefully the next Democrat President will be 'centre left'.. or the next.. or the next.. keep wishing.

Obnoxious
Personally, I love this progressive post modernist world I live in, on two continents.
But I still have a dictionary, call me reactionary.
 

TWB103

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Maybe it's an American thing but noone in Europe confuses socialism with social democracy. I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant by using the words communism and socialism in same context that are for the most part interchangeable.

Biden also loves the progressive post modernist world. But wait! He's now bad?!
 

antipodean

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For me Peronism, and its legacy on the structure of the Argentine state, can best be described as a form of Neo-Fascism that closely resembles classical Italian Fascism with a strong dose of Kleptocracy and a very versatile marketing department.

In terms of meeting the definition-check of being Neo-Fascist, Peronism;
  • is Populist (e.g. a political panqueque, from Menem to Cristina, it will say and do whatever it takes to get into power according to the bank balance or credit limit of the day vs. the popular mood)
  • is Authoritarian (e.g. Does not tolerate criticism well and does not like powers of the state that it does not control, continually attempts to concentrate more power in the executive roles of governors and presidents, wants to put the state at the center of all decision making)
  • is Supremacist (e.g. "For a good Peronist, there is nothing better than another Peronist.", zero respect for political opponents and a highly divisive political strategy)
  • is Nationalist (e.g. "la Patria" this and "la Patria" that)
  • is Xenophobic (e.g. uses "anti-US/ "anti-imperialist" justifications for political decisions)
  • is a frequent oppressor/ subordinator of individual interests for their idea of the "greater good"
  • attempts to demolish key tenants of Liberal Democracy to solidify its own political power (e.g. separation of powers, rule of law, market economy, maintaining fair and consistent electoral rules etc.)
  • opposes Communism
  • opposes Socialism
  • opposes Neoliberalism
  • promotes elements of corporatism (e.g. favors and utilizes aligned businesses like Aerolineas Argentinas and labor unions like CGT over non-aligned businesses and unions as political tools and agents of "social welfare")
  • is a supporter of other authoritarian regimes (e.g. Cuba, Venezuela, China, Iran, Russia and historically Franco's Spain, Hilter's Germany, Mussolini's Italy etc.)
  • has always been rife with corruption, misappropriation, embezzlement, of state funds etc, while actual punishments have been few and far between (and where they do happen, short and sweet.)
Like in classical fascism, capitalism and private property have always existed under Peronism. The difference between capitalism in a more neo-liberal context and the Argentine context is that the state puts itself at the center of all matters of life including the economy, so it decides which of its friends to make rich through monopolies, rigged concessions, subsidies, protectionism, etc instead of letting the market decide for itself, meaning personal interests always end up taking priority over national interests, regardless of the pathetic sloganeering like "primero la gente" etc. When assessing Argentina's failures and successes labels like "socialist" and "communist" just don't factor as legitimate elements of the outcome.
 
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