There we go again

[ventanilla]

Ventanilla put your energy in Venezuela a country where over 50 people die per day for lack of medicines and starvation and then you can have the moral superiority on this forum .

Making snide remarks to all the expats on this forum about their priveledged lifestyle shows your real intentions . By the way most expats are in Argentina because they are in a committed relationship with another from Argentina . I hardly see them rolling around in riches and most get by on the minimum .

Ventanilla what about all the politicians in Argentina that are billionaires and multi millionaires for honest accounting you should mention them as they have caused tremendous social suffering in Argentina . Have they really worked for the people or just threw a few crumbs while they controlled all the big business and took all the money out of Argentina

Landowners in Argentina are not the problem for the shit this country is in . The last government of Macri illegally borrowed over 100 billion dollars without any accounting leaving a huge debt for the country for many generations .

You have no idea what you're talking about, you just have a few set phrases and yell COMMUNISM at everything. And of course you ignore the fact that Sociedad Rural is currently throwing thousands of tons of food into the gutter in a country undergoing a hunger crisis.

Look at this and try to justify it. Tell me how being against this is 'Communism' more. Ridiculous.

 

[ventanilla]

Yes i agree, we should take the land from the legal owners by force and give it to villeros since every one knows every one wants to be a farmer if they were not busy being villeros lol
Now, seriously, most people that talk about land re distribution never ever spent a day out in the pampas much less actually getting involved in farming or ranching, you know, where you actually have to sweat and put some physical work into it.

Who do you think works the land? Is it the owners? No, multimillionaires don't get their hands dirty, obviously. It's the agricultural workers. They know how to work it. They do it literally every day, after all.
The people who talk about land redistribution by far the most are literally these people; the people who work it.

Argentina has plenty of wildly successfully agricultural cooperatives (that means owned equally by all their workers) that have already put this idea into practice, so you're just plain wrong. https://www.acacoop.com.ar/

 

[lamarque]

Who do you think works the land? Is it the owners? No, multimillionaires don't get their hands dirty, obviously. It's the agricultural workers. They know how to work it. They do it literally every day, after all.
The people who talk about land redistribution by far the most are literally these people; the people who work it.

Argentina has plenty of wildly successfully agricultural cooperatives (that means owned equally by all their workers) that have already put this idea into practice, so you're just plain wrong. https://www.acacoop.com.ar/

My god, here we go again, a porteño that know shit about the interior of the country trying to think he knows better, all this family that i know had their gran fathers working like mules to make channels for irrigation, wind barriers, and insertion, their soon's worked the land, and adquire land from other farmers that did not want the shitty life that offers the farming work and decided to move to the city with that money, now the grand child's have many lands they still work like crazy, different work but they all work 14-16-18 hours a day, and they employ a lot of people now a days. While the business is quite bad at the moment they needed to stop producing apples and tomatoes but they decided to keep the employment level, soon after the workers start a protest in the moment of collection and the whole thing went bankruptcy, a single random event can destroy you as a farmer, other family lost all the cattle and the lands where burned in a big thunderstorm fire, they will not recover from that, there are some others that still manage, and fight to be in business, but in this country when is time to tax the government is always there taxing you even before you produce a penny, now when it comes the time to help on this famous emergencies they are never ever there. So cut the shit man, the enemy here is the big state, it suffocates an economy even before it manages to growth. And land concentration is mostly the fault of the government, they put so many taxes that only the bigger fishes manage to survive, the smaller ones finish deciding to sell their lands or rent it and move to their city.

 

[lamarque]

My god, here we go again, a porteño that know shit about the interior of the country trying to think he knows better, all this family that i know had their gran fathers working like mules to make channels for irrigation, wind barriers, and insertion, their soon's worked the land, and adquire land from other farmers that did not want the shitty life that offers the farming work and decided to move to the city with that money, now the grand child's have many lands they still work like crazy, different work but they all work 14-16-18 hours a day, and they employ a lot of people now a days. While the business is quite bad at the moment they needed to stop producing apples and tomatoes but they decided to keep the employment level, soon after the workers start a protest in the moment of collection and the whole thing went bankruptcy, a single random event can destroy you as a farmer, other family lost all the cattle and the lands where burned in a big thunderstorm fire, they will not recover from that, there are some others that still manage, and fight to be in business, but in this country when is time to tax the government is always there taxing you even before you produce a penny, now when it comes the time to help on this famous emergencies they are never ever there. So cut the shit man, the enemy here is the big state, it suffocates an economy even before it manages to growth. And land concentration is mostly the fault of the government, they put so many taxes that only the bigger fishes manage to survive, the smaller ones finish deciding to sell their lands or rent it and move to their city.

Back in the time of my gran fathers, every family living in the country side had their own land, the concentration started around the 60-70 with peron taxing the land owners, the smaller ones died or decided that it was not worth it to live in the middle of nowhere to just get by and they moved to the city where they had better access to services and medicine (between the land owners that sold their land was my mother family), the second land concentrations started In the Kischner era where taxes where so crazy high and present for every single one of them without even taking into account the distance to the port and the weather and productivity of their land, this caused the worst crisis of land concentration on my town and on all Argentina, most farmers went bankrupt and sold to the bigger landowners, or rented their lands to them that had a economy of scales that allowed them to survive until better times (most of my uncles finished bankrupted on this decada ganada, and had to sell their land to people with a bigger back, good people not devils as you call them, we all know each other in the towns). Same happened with cattle ranchers, they where exterminated on the so called asado para todos that actually led Argentina to start importing meat from paraguay, and brasil and the price of meat on their highest value ever, most of them sold their cattle and lands to bigger land owners that had a lower structure of cost or that could had a bigger cash cushion to survive the bad times.

 

[lamarque]

And all of this is always to feed the never ending blackhole of the state and the subsidies on Buenos Aires, we don't get cheap transport or cheap services, and never the less is always the less populated and less benefited interior of the country that have to pay the politicians party. Problem is that every time the cakes get smaller, so now they want to go for more again, that will make more people poor and less people produce, so not to long after adding taxes you will realize that you need to add more taxes, and the economy will shrink again and again and again and there you have the cicle of the last 70 years explained.

 

[Pierre Smith]

Argentina has plenty of wildly successfully agricultural cooperatives (that means owned equally by all their workers) that have already put this idea into practice, so you're just plain wrong. https://www.acacoop.com.ar/

Why don't you ring one of these agricultural cooperatives and ask their opinion on the increased export tariffs?

Even if a given farm or cooperative does not export, by design the government's plan will increase the volume of farm products coming to the domestic market, with the effect of reducing prices. But there's nowhere for a farmer to make it up. Whilre labor costs as already as low as they can get, the real cost of agri-chemicals, machinery, and other inputs that are necessarily either sourced internationally, or priced for international sale, have risen 50% over the past three years.

Even if a cooperative purchases nothing on credit, and ships nothing out of the country, and even assuming that last year's investments were made conservatively, anticipating a Peronist return to power, with these new tariffs these firms are still looking at steep losses across the board, on major price drops in the domestic market. Brazil will not save Argentina's producers this time, as consumption has slowed there, and Bolsonaro has been making trade moves to undercut the traditional role of Argentine producers.

 

[ventanilla]

I note that you have to talk about your 'grand fathers' working hard, not yourself. Point proven. The large landholders, who are now more accurately described as 'agribusiness', do not work the land. They know nothing about working the land. It's the workers that do, and they could manage it just fine without the leech owners.

Why don't you ring one of these agricultural cooperatives and ask their opinion on the increased export tariffs?

Obviously they aren't happy with them, and it's a shame that Kirchernism never makes any effort to differentiate between Sociedad Rural and other agricultural operations. Regardless, they aren't literally dumping their produce into the gutters, like the large companies are doing right at this moment.

 

[dilmah]

all this family that i know had their gran fathers working like mules to make channels for irrigation, wind barriers, and insertion

Nobody should take land (or any other wealth) from living people.
What we need to do is to take land and wealth from dead people, instead of passing that wealth to their children.
Because children have no right to wealth of their parents.
All children should start at the same base level regardless of in which family they were born.

 

[Pensador]

I note that you have to talk about your 'grand fathers' working hard, not yourself. Point proven. The large landholders, who are now more accurately described as 'agribusiness', do not work the land. They know nothing about working the land. It's the workers that do, and they could manage it just fine without the leech owners.



Obviously they aren't happy with them, and it's a shame that Kirchernism never makes any effort to differentiate between Sociedad Rural and other agricultural operations. Regardless, they aren't literally dumping their produce into the gutters, like the large companies are doing right at this moment.

Vantanilla what are you carrying on for what do you understand about anything? You amaze me with your lack of understanding and knowledge you have no idea what is coming and think these things carry on about have some sort of relevance. You're beating your fists against the air with no target. All this that you suppose has some sort of intellect is far from any critical thinking or understanding of where we are going as a civilization.

Redistribute the land to the workers! LOL sure, but what you do not understand is that the workers will be obsolete within 10 to 20 years. They will be replaced by machines that work better and faster, driven by artificial intelligence that is 1000 times smarter than the worker.

So here you are carrying on about this when all of it will mean nothing in the very near future. The machines won't get sick, they will not complain, they will not have no political views, they will be able to produce 24 hours a day, they will make the work seem meaningless.

I am a software developer, and I would advise you to do some research relating to what I have posted here. It is and will be fruitless to waste your time or mind on the path of thinking you are in.

Things are going to change radically and rapidly, even as they have in the last 20 years. You would be far wiser investigating what technology is going to manifest and how you and the workers can avoid becoming obsolete in the progression of technology.

I rest my case... a wise man lets time speak for him.

 

[ventanilla]

Thanks for giving even more reasons why land shouldn't be concentrated in the hands of 10 oligarchical families.