There we go again

[Joglide]

These are good points and true the powers that be and I am well aware of these things. For many of us it is painfully clear how political manipulation works and how and why they (the brainwashed) buy into it.

Once the mind is gone in populism and propaganda after a political ideology that is usually just a front behind which the corruption operates. Even as you described these things. Bring that mind back to common ground…. How?

You can try and explain these things to the ones in the grip of the propaganda of populism from now till Neverland and they are not going to come out of it. Making the possibility of common ground all but impossible. So for me anyway, there is black and white here and not you, I or anyone else is going to change that. A mind given to populism is not going to entertain anything relating to a common ground. That I suppose is part of the grand scheme of populism.

Interesting. How would it apply to Trump populism or Putin populism? Are people irretrievably lost once they buy into (say) Reaganism, or can people change their minds?

 

[Pensador]

Interesting. How would it apply to Trump populism or Putin populism? Are people irretrievably lost once they buy into (say) Reaganism, or can people change their minds?

So far in my experience, it is much of the same. So many of my friends, Trumpsters there is no getting through to them.... period. So I do not try it is a waste of time.

 

[Weyland]

Just someone with a strong sense of justice. Or maybe you can explain why concentrating wealth and means of production in the hands of those who have done nothing in particular to deserve it is morally justifiable

Is it moral that so much wealth is concentrated in the hands of so few? No. The policies of the left here, (I consider myself more to the left side of the political spectrum), actually acerbate this problem. As Iamarque and others have noted, the high taxes make it that only large corporate farms can be profitable. For the mom and pop farmer there isn't the economy of scale to make it work.

I'm curious to hear what you propose as a solution. Land reform in Latin America does not have a successful track record. Even the Ks don't dare to propose this, because they know that the consequences would be lower tax revenue in dollars. Perhaps a hefty inheritance tax would be a more appropriate.

 

[lunar]

Is it moral that so much wealth is concentrated in the hands of so few? No.

On what moral basis? If your neighbor has more money than you, does it give you a moral right to rob him?

What about super rich guys like Jeff Bezos? Is he immoral by definition?

 

[Weyland]

What about super rich guys like Jeff Bezos? Is he immoral by definition?

No, he is not. The system itself is immoral. A system that allows Amazon to pay $0 in federal taxes. The carried interest loophole. The tax code that was essentially written by corporate lobbyists.

On what moral basis? If your neighbor has more money than you, does it give you a moral right to rob him?

You consider taxes theft?

 

[Aloha Boy]

No, he is not. The system itself is immoral. A system that allows Amazon to pay $0 in federal taxes. The carried interest loophole. The tax code that was essentially written by corporate lobbyists.

You consider taxes theft?

So if Amazon pays $0 tax, and assuming they do so legally since they're not in "jail", then the system is immoral. What "system" are you referring to? The concept of democracy itself that put the tax code in place? Or just the US, hence the US citizens?

 

[Joglide]

So if Amazon pays $0 tax, and assuming they do so legally since they're not in "jail", then the system is immoral. What "system" are you referring to? The concept of democracy itself that put the tax code in place? Or just the US, hence the US citizens?

I am not sure that something which is not illegal must be morally just: but more importantly, we are talking about inter-national and bi-lateral issues. It was not strictly illegal that the USA has invaded several countries (as did the USSR and numerous Africa countries), and it was perfectly legal for South Africa to impose apartheid, but that does not make it moral or just. Transnational corporations behave badly not infrequently in several ways and not paying taxes is one - this is an abuse of power since states struggle to control such behaviour and corporations threaten to take their business and jobs away if they face any tax in any country. Hence tax havens flourish by offering a location with minimal tax.

 

[Pensador]

So if Amazon pays $0 tax, and assuming they do so legally since they're not in "jail", then the system is immoral. What "system" are you referring to? The concept of democracy itself that put the tax code in place? Or just the US, hence the US citizens?

US burger haben kein votum uber steuergesetze, glauben sie mir.

 

[Aloha Boy]

US burger haben kein votum uber steuergesetze, glauben sie mir.

Wir sind in Argentina oder Deutschland?

 

[Aloha Boy]

I am not sure that something which is not illegal must be morally just: but more importantly, we are talking about inter-national and bi-lateral issues. It was not strictly illegal that the USA has invaded several countries (as did the USSR and numerous Africa countries), and it was perfectly legal for South Africa to impose apartheid, but that does not make it moral or just. Transnational corporations behave badly not infrequently in several ways and not paying taxes is one - this is an abuse of power since states struggle to control such behaviour and corporations threaten to take their business and jobs away if they face any tax in any country. Hence tax havens flourish by offering a location with minimal tax.

So what is your solution to control immoral behaviors? Are you suggesting Argentina to be a tax haven in order to flourish?

I read a lot of complaints, and I get it, but at least give a solution?