These Are The People Who Are Stealing Your Money

[GS_Dirtboy]

I think I'm missing a piece of the puzzle. Here is the way I understood market forces to work.

Grocer A has 12 apples for $20
Grocer B has 12 apples for $20
They split the apple market 50/50

Grocer A gets greedy. He decides to raise his price to $22
Grocer B keeps his apples at $20
Grocer B gains 20% more of the apple market.

Grocer A and Grocer B have a coffee and decide to both raise their prices to $22
Grocer A and Grocer B then get a phone call from the Federal Trade Commission or the Department of Justice.

How does it work here? One would think that people have a reasonable access to information and can freely choose the lowest price.

GS

 

[Vermonter]

The victim and perpetrator narrative is perhaps the most widely told story historically speaking. Why stop using it when it works so well and temporarily assuages the emotions of so many people?

Of course it may not always be rational, but rationality isn't necessarily truth. Truth is created, and some people happen to be very good at creating truths that are divisive, controversial, and disagreeable from a rational and reasoned perspective.

We'll see if this disagreeable situation resolves without incident or if the wolf is preparing for the kill.

 

[germano]

The "coffee" part can be hard to prove. A good example are the gazoline prices in Germany. Everybody knows big players have the liter prices somehow coordinated. But until now they have not been able to prove it.

 

[Patagone]

I think I'm missing a piece of the puzzle. Here is the way I understood market forces to work.

Grocer A has 12 apples for $20
Grocer B has 12 apples for $20
They split the apple market 50/50

Grocer A gets greedy. He decides to raise his price to $22
Grocer B keeps his apples at $20
Grocer B gains 20% more of the apple market.

Grocer A and Grocer B have a coffee and decide to both raise their prices to $22
Grocer A and Grocer B then get a phone call from the Federal Trade Commission or the Department of Justice.

How does it work here? One would think that people have a reasonable access to information and can freely choose the lowest price.

GS

The basic assumption is correct, but there are additional forces at play:
- Consumer X is used to go to grocer A, and does not check Grocer B's prices daily
- Consumer Y lives next door to grocer B and it costs more to travel to Grocer A than he will save per trip (time and money).
- Grocer A still has a large stash of apples but grocer B is nearly finished with his and notices that due to inflation and seasonal changes, he suddenly needs to pay $30/kilo for new apples.

etc etc.
About shops adding 100% marging: this is average worldwide and in most sectors. Amazon demands about 60% discount from publishers, so they can generously give 25% discounts. I know several importers/distributors of outdoor gear in the EU as I used to be sponsored and still get some stuff at wholesale: usually they buy stuff from say, The North Face at $100, sell it to the shops at $200, who sells it to you at $400. TNF makes it for $50, paying the guy sewing it in China $5/day. Not all of this is profit and defintely not just for one party: you just pay for all the people, offices, marketing, transport, coffee breaks etc in the entire supply chain.
If you don't want this, don't buy things new or at all. Or try to cut out the middle men.

 

[germano]

About shops adding 100% marging: this is average worldwide and in most sectors.

That is not true. Average in Europe 21%

http://www.datamonitor.com/store/News/groceries_germany_has_lowest_margins_uk_has_highest?productid=BAEA582F-269A-4EF6-BCD2-4A52DDF45CCC

"Grocery outlets have to find the right balance between high margins and customer retention. The average margin on groceries in Europe is 21% but the level varies greatly by country. Germany has by far the lowest margins, at just 15%, due to the popularity of hard discounters. Customers in other countries do not get food as cheaply: Sweden has the next lowest margin, at 19%."

 

[Reneige]

Cristina's theatrical display on television television today, attacking grocery stores, was really pandering to the most ignorant people in society (aka her voter base). Any idiot knows that the grocers profits are public information.

Dia : 2.3% net profit
http://www.diacorpor...013-results.pdf

carrefour : 2.4% profit margin
http://www.carrefour...e_HY_2013_2.pdf

Clearly earning a meager two and a half percent profit margin is usury.

Oh and today was also the first time I witnessed the incredible power that the president has to highjack all public TV and Radio at her will, in order to monologue HER opinions, without any question/answer period from the press or from the citizens she is supposed to represent. That is an insult to democracy! I cannot believe Argentinians do not realise that in the rest of the western world, this is totally unacceptable. What a circus...

 

[jackbower]

Cristina's theatrical display on television television today, attacking grocery stores, was really pandering to the most ignorant people in society (aka her voter base). Any idiot knows that the grocers profits are public information.

Dia : 2.3% net profit
http://www.diacorpor...013-results.pdf

carrefour : 2.4% profit margin
http://www.carrefour...e_HY_2013_2.pdf



Oh and today was also the first time I witnessed the incredible power that the president has to highjack all public TV and Radio at her will, in order to monologue HER opinions, without any question/answer period from the press or from the citizens she is supposed to represent. That is an insult to democracy! I cannot believe Argentinians do not realise that in the rest of the western world, this is totally unacceptable. What a circus...

Ha. the same thing happens in the " west ". the media parrots dont ask any serious questions. they follow governmemt narratives and corporate story lines. Now back to this " western world " you speak of, who is this western world? and what makes them better than say the eastern world or the northern world or the southern world for that matter. and while were on the subject, who divides the world so flippantly? Do you believe your world and its people to be better than " other " worlds? you do understand how basic you sound right? there is no outcry except from you. now on a more serious substantive note, who are your handlers? your dialectic strategy is pretty clear. You come on here to defend bankers and the federal reserve and their circus like economic policies all the while parroting their corporate line. Just like you are accusing the Argentinian media of doing. Oh and the rest of the time you bash argentina. what else do you regularly post about? Anyway, I find your alternate pseudo reality entertaining to read, just as long as I dont take it seriously.

 

[jackbower]

hey everybody get out the torches and pitchforks like in ukraine and venezuela and lets tear some ish up. theres been an insult to " democracy ". And the " western world " finds it unacceptable. I mean its okay to fund terrorists in libya, syria, ukraine. spy on the entire worlds private communications. its okay to execute american citizens without a trial with a drone. its okay to drop bombs from drones on thousands of innocent civilians in afghanistan and pakistan, yemen, somalia etc. force feeding and torturing prisoners in guantanamo and other black sites, not a problem. attacking sovereign nations, pffft, thats the name of the game. when people protested with occupy wallstreet, demolish their camps and crush all dissent. its simply preserving the rule of law. But dont you dare blame a corporate grocery store for price gouging and hoarding. And no media better agree with you. Thats simply unacceptable to this vacuous two faced hypocritical " western world ".



On a more serious note. No one gives a rats ass what this " western world " thinks. If they dont like the rest of the world, they should stick to their own. They are hypocritical liars and everybody knows it. They can keep their democracy bombs and democracy sanctions, democracy no fly zones, their democracy military coups, their democracy color revolutions, their democracy terrorists and contras. Nobody buys what theyre selling anymore. only those living in that corporate owned, sponsored and managed " western world ". And even those numbers are dwindling. Stick with the middle east, its much easier to manage perceptions over there. Latin America already had decades of " western democracy " I mean military juntas and dictatorships. Fool me once.

 

[germano]

Cristina's theatrical display on television television today, attacking grocery stores, was really pandering to the most ignorant people in society (aka her voter base). Any idiot knows that the grocers profits are public information.

Dia : 2.3% net profit
http://www.diacorpor...013-results.pdf

carrefour : 2.4% profit margin
http://www.carrefour...e_HY_2013_2.pdf

Those are their worldwide profit margins ... does not tell us much about their margins in Argentina.

 

[sleazemerchant]

hey everybody get out the torches and pitchforks like in ukraine and venezuela and lets tear some ish up. theres been an insult to " democracy ". And the " western world " finds it unacceptable. I mean its okay to fund terrorists in libya, syria, ukraine. spy on the entire worlds private communications. its okay to execute american citizens without a trial with a drone. its okay to drop bombs from drones on thousands of innocent civilians in afghanistan and pakistan, yemen, somalia etc. force feeding and torturing prisoners in guantanamo and other black sites, not a problem. attacking sovereign nations, pffft, thats the name of the game. when people protested with occupy wallstreet, demolish their camps and crush all dissent. its simply preserving the rule of law. But dont you dare blame a corporate grocery store for price gouging and hoarding. And no media better agree with you. Thats simply unacceptable to this vacuous two faced hypocritical " western world ".



On a more serious note. No one gives a rats ass what this " western world " thinks. If they dont like the rest of the world, they should stick to their own. They are hypocritical liars and everybody knows it. They can keep their democracy bombs and democracy sanctions, democracy no fly zones, their democracy military coups, their democracy color revolutions, their democracy terrorists and contras. Nobody buys what theyre selling anymore. only those living in that corporate owned, sponsored and managed " western world ". And even those numbers are dwindling. Stick with the middle east, its much easier to manage perceptions over there. Latin America already had decades of " western democracy " I mean military juntas and dictatorships. Fool me once.

"This" isn't about democracy v non-democracy or whether the "western world" should be telling developing countries what to do or not. There is not a shred of doubt that so-called "western" economic principles such as responsible fiscal and monetary policy (aimed at moderate and consistent growth), sanctity of contracts, transparency, clear and consistent rule of law, and strong market orientation are the path to bringing the highest and most sustainable standard of living to the greatest number of people. Argentina's repeated economic capitulations always come back to not sticking to the tried-and-true "western" economic principles. The current problems are merely symptoms of not respecting the above mentioned "western" economic principles.