This should be interesting

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If K wins there is a good chance Argentina will go down harder than it ever has before. Which I do not wish to see but yet as they say be careful what you ask for. I noticed one bank here has already reduced extraction amounts. They are ready for Monday it seems.

Everyone I know but one person. Whom I would consider being a complete loser and idiotic fool is pulling for Macri. They do not want the corruption or the subsidy handouts power to the poor back! Even though they have themselves have suffered in all this. That tells you there are brave souls here willing to go through whatever is needed to break the cycle of the Peronismo.

I am starting to see a real disdain for the poor among Argentinians that want a life they are starting to feel like the poor are dragging them down and it is painfully obvious they realize that.

What are your thoughts?
 
I am in two minds about today . On one hand I am happy to see that Macri will not longer be in power but on the other hand I see no alternative that will work for the common good of the country and create a strong Argentina for everyone . I believe in just system but I do not believe in those who will cheer on the destruction of Chile when Venezuela and Cuba are much worse .

For me Venezuela is ground zero with a system that should be condemned by all . People earn 5 dollars a month and starvation and misery are a way of life for millions . Instead of talking about Chile where at least there is some dignity lets talk about Venezuela and the terrible standard of living that people are living under . Leaders who stay in power while their people are suffering like this are not to be admired . I have seen posters on this forum praising this country and I ask them is that you what you want for Argentina?
 
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If Macri wins, there is a good chance he would borrow so much more that he would bankrupt the IMF...
Everyone I know, ranging in age from 20 to 80, is voting against Macri.
I guess we know different people.
 
The funny part is the one friend I was referring to is the one that told me he thinks K is like Robin Hood she may be a thief but at least she does something for the people. I am like where do you think the government gets money from anyway? The people of course. So who is getting robbed?
Oh OK! I did not bother with him no point.

Yes, I am sure different people very different and my wife's family is huge over 300 I know allot of Argentinians as a result of that.
 
Everyone I know, ranging in age from 20 to 80, is voting against Macri.
I guess we know different people.
Funny, everyone I know voted for Macri.

Those voting AGAINST Macri instead of FOR Fernandez are cutting their noses to spite their faces. The next four years will tell.....
 
If Macri wins, there is a good chance he would borrow so much more that he would bankrupt the IMF...
Everyone I know, ranging in age from 20 to 80, is voting against Macri.
I guess we know different people.

highly possible when there were what, more than 20 million ballots cast for either?

the fact that people "only know" who voted for one or the other really is statistically meaningless.
 
My friend who was a government official under the previous administration is ecstatic. Once again all he will have to do to earn a very nice income is put on a suit twice a month and go into the office to get paid.
 
What many K supporters don't understand is that when Nestor took over in 2003, Argentina was already out of the crisis and the currency was extremely devalued. This attracted lots of investment because assets and labor were cheap. He had inherited a fiscal surplus of 2.5%!

Then comes 2006 - 2011 and the boom of commodity prices...soy reached $650, oil $150 (prices are about half that now). Argentina was flush with dollars as a result. Enough money to subsidize electricity, gas, transportation. Generous welfare programs. Stuff the public sector with more and more jobs. This of course juices the economy, puts money in the hands of the people. However very little of this windfall was invested into long term productive projects like education and infrastructure. What you had was the commodity windfall used on short term items. So when people say their lives were better under the Ks, it's true!

Also during the time you had the tax burden on business go up. Inflation start to rise. This makes more business unviable and less of an incentive to invest. There comes an inflection point that when you raise taxes over a certain point, tax revenue actually goes down. In 2008, during the best economic climate in modern Argentine history, they entered into a fiscal deficit that continued to deepen until they left office.

Around the end of 2012 commodity prices begin to fall. The Ks economy and politics is revolved around generous subsidies, state employment, welfare payments - so when the money dries up from export taxes continue their policies and in 2015 they leave office with a 7.5% fiscal deficit!

Another important point - From 2011 and on, the reserves have been going down. Capital controls don't stop capital flight!! It only makes it more costly to move capital offshore.

Here enters Macri. The only gift he had when he entered office was that there was very little debt outstanding, besides the vulture debt which was $4.5 billion. The problem was he inherited a fiscal deficit of 7.5%. The only government that can constantly run fiscal deficits is US government. In order to cut that deficit he needs to lower public spending. Afraid of the social and political consequences he doesn't cut spending enough. Macri's policies are Kirchner-lite, but he opens up the economy believing that more money will come in due to his business friendly speak. Rather what happened was when investors saw the same tax burden, the same labor laws, high government spending, they moved their money out of Argentina. With no capital controls the process happened quickly, put even more pressure on the peso and made the dollar denominated debt impossible to pay back.

Now AF will be confronted with the sins of both administrations - Inflation, high public spending, high taxes and a large dollar denominated debt. It will be very interesting to see AF's approach. We know the cepo will strengthen, as it has already today, but as I stated above that doesn't necessarily stop capital flight. The only viable tax base is raw materials which are not at high historical prices. He can't borrow from the markets, maybe the IMF or China, but both the IMF and China will want their pound of flesh.

There just isn't the money to engage in the same policies of the Ks from 2003-15. The only source of money to try to fund it is by expanding money supply aka print more pesos. In this current economic context that means only one thing - serious hyper inflation.
 
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