To the critics with no opinion of their own

[jaredwb]

This was originally posted by MARKSOC.

1- The price controls over beef allowed the local population to eat meat. I don´t know how many of those producers would have stayed producing meat without this measure or gievn the prices of soya how many would have done that anyway. The fact is that with free exports of meat, it would have been a lot more expensive earlier.

Reality, Argentina has gone from number 1 beef exporting nation to a country that must now import to meet domestic needs. Government policies over the years have severely damaged the industry.

2- The retirement accounts were not confiscated, since they are retirement accounts and not private pension funds. The money will come to you anyway when you reach the pension age, the difference is that now you are asured to get it (which was not the case with the AFJPs).

Reality, the government took control of the funds and has used them for other purposes. In exchange the savers got an IOU from the government promising to pay a pension at a future date. Of course the government here has had a lot of difficulties honoring its financial obligations in the past. Seizing the funds sent another message to investors that private property rights are not respected. Lack of private of investment is severely retarding the growth of the economy.


3- The reciprocity fee was implemented by many countries, and it is ok. In SE Asia (were I am right now) countries charge for a visa according to parameters like this, the tourist industry in Laos and Cambodia is booming. Anyway, most of the tourists in Argentina are not Americans.

Reality, simply a silly political move to show those gringos because they make Argentinians get a visa. Its intended to make the local population feel better there was never any economic analysis of the potential impact.

4- The INDEC game was an amazing way to deal with the debtors. It destroyed credibility, but saved us a lot of money on very critical years.

Reality, outside investors look at this as a technical default by Argentina, i.e. under calculating the interest due. More investors chased away, higher interest rates charged to Argentina in the future, more damage to the economy.


5- The new Media Law will open new venues for independent journalism, not less. This one is really clear, I don´t get how people can be angry for a law that limits the power of "Clarin". Or would you like to have only "Fox News" in your country?

Reality, this and actions since underline this is only petty retribution(against Clarin for withdrawing their support) and attack on a free press by the government. The government steers advertising funds (which are significant)to papers that provide positive coverage, use harassment and other tactics to undermine those who don't.

6-Import taxes: one more tool in the economist bag. Sorry that you cannot buy that I-Pad as cheap as in the States, it is a way of making money from people that can buy I-Pads, and in some cases protecting the national industry. Guess what, I prefer some shitty products than a lot of unemployment.

Reality, protects inefficient producers and results in inferior products at high prices in the local market. As the products produced are not of good quality and price the industries stagnate and their goods cannot be sold outside outside the protected borders of Argentina. Long term economic growth suffers and employment in industry is much lower as a result.

Very very well stated!! Aplauso!! I love it when the facts stick it to the K supporters.

 

[Guillo]

Very very well stated!! Aplauso!! I love it when the facts stick it to the K supporters.

Its kind of a waste of time. They will ignore anything that proves them wrong, and will usually continue with their "monopolistic media" bullshit or blaming someone else.

 

[Lucas]

 

[Lucas]

 

[cabrera]

Very very well stated!! Aplauso!! I love it when the facts stick it to the K supporters.

You are so smart why are you in Argentina then if you do not like the government . We happen to live in an democracy that elected legally the Kirchners Nestor and Christina.

You Jared and your brainwashed sheep should live in Obamusa and enjoy your freedoms there

 

[jaredwb]

You are so smart why are you in Argentina then if you do not like the government . We happen to live in an democracy that elected legally the Kirchners Nestor and Christina.

You Jared and your brainwashed sheep should live in Obamusa and enjoy your freedoms there

LMAO LMAO LMAO!! Thats (LAUGH MY FU'IN ASS OFF) You really thing the K's were "legally" elected...LMAO! Come on, I thought you were smarter than that.

Democracy??? LMAO AGAIN!

I still love you Cabrera!!

 

[Hache]

We happen to live in an democracy that elected legally the Kirchners Nestor and Christina.

If you think about it, election days in this country can be pretty much like Christmas (the day we all make an effort and try to be good, right? So much for the remaining 364 days of the year)... Election days remind us we live in a democracy... on election days.

 

[marksoc]

So people in this forum are so delusional that think that there is no democracy in Argentina? Last time I checked, K. was not elected by the Supreme Court as a certain ex-president in the US.

About my points:

1- Meat: I said that the price would have been expensive earlier. Given the prices of soja, meat production will decrease anyway.

2- AFJPs: if they dissapear, your money is gone, and that is way this system is not applied in any industrialized nation. The state never dissapears.

3- Law of Media: Anti-Monopoly law. Regardless any intentions, the law exists and is anti-monopolic, for this government AND for the next ones. See the graphic above to show what is Clarin, and the danger of Berlusconizitation of the country.

4- The INDEC. After the 1990s I could care less about foreign investors. If there is any opportunity to do money, they will come anyway, after all capitalism is about that, making money in the short term. Is not that CEOs care too much about their companies anyway (see US financial sector). I am not sure we want them here, anyway. We should be able to choose who can come and for what purpose. The days of freely plundering the world are over.

5- Protectionism: guess what, it worked numerous times in history. The UK, the US, almost everybody did it. It all depends on the context and which industry do you choose to protect.

And about the US: it is over, China already won. Someday they will get tired of it, and if they have alternative consumers (as they seem to be producing in their own country and in Asia in general), they will not need the US anymore. And then... it will be very fun to watch (in a wicked sense).

Don´t worry about us, we will continue giving the chinese our natural resources, maybe we will find a niche to survive, maybe we will continue as always. Of something I am sure, Argentinians are very resilient to economic crisis.

 

[dr__dawggy]

If you think about it, election days in this country can be pretty much like Christmas (the day we all make an effort and try to be good, right? So much for the remaining 364 days of the year)... Election days remind us we live in a democracy... on election days.

Your statement is true on several levels. Many a voter receives a "gift" on election day from their favorite "Santa Claus" candidate. This is not a comment directed at the K's alone. Menem and many other politicos buy/have bought votes.

 

[marksoc]

And note that the answers to my replies say mostly K wanted this or that. Intentions are not important here, only the things done and its effects. K did something to get votes? Sure. K did something to excert more control over the press? Sure, can be. K this or that? Yes, but the facts are objective, neocon economic principles are not. Review your answers, half of them say that the economy will be wrong because a Chicago economics principle says so. Guess what, you are wrong, and that is one of the motives of why you are here and not in your mortgaged house in the US.