To the critics with no opinion of their own

[Davidglen77]

This to ALL of the haters out there. If you don't like the Kirchner's politics that totally cool, and your right as a human being. But why not make some comments based on your own research as opposed to following what others say and something you may have read in the newspaper or on the internet but has never been proven. It's really easy to do that and shows how little intelligence some people have. Is the Kirchner administration perfect? no, and nobody claims it is. Have they done a lot of good for the country? yes how about focusing on the positive, housing, healthcare, marriage equality, promoting families and international relations?

Also, anybody who dares to take the risk of trying to run a country that has been through so much drama in the past 50 years, has my vote. Néstor (epd) and Cristina have guts and conviction, and those are values that most people don't have. I take my hat off to them for that and the other positive things they have done for Argentina! Viva Cristina!

 

[mendozanow]

"Haters" is an inapproriate, inarticulate and unintelligent term used to apply to anyone who disagrees with your opinion.

I respect your opinion, no leaders are perfect. And, we can never fully know what fully s happening anywhere in the world, even where we live. We can and will extrapolate based on what we see with our own lies, the corruption we have to deal with day-to-day, the truth everytime we buy something that increases in price incredibly (which Cristinina says is a lie). Yes there are positives to any administration, but there is no problem talking about the negatives.

Yes, sometimes we rant.

Ranting is not a criticism of Argentina, it is just plain therapy, and those overly sensitive foreigners and Argentines who prowl here and shake their holierthanthou fingers at us just don´t get it. I hear the same thing from latinos about my homeland, especially Argentines, who do not think I understand their overheard conversations in Spanish, when I go home for a visit...and yunno, I don´t get offended.

 

[AngelinBA]

I´ve been here for ten years now, was here when De la Rua was kicked out of power, was here for the 5 presidents in one week and was here when Nestor and Cristina came to power. I think I´ve earned the right to rant .
Personally, I hate Cristina passionately- probably more than is really healthy considering she's someone who I'll never meet and has never done anything to me personally.
What I really want to say, is that while Cristina (and her government) has a lot of qualities that we dislike, the real problem is that there is no viable alternative. Maybe this is what the Argentines see that we don't. It's not just a case of voting out what's not working, you've got to look at what could end up in power and weigh up what's really better for the country.
I'm really glad I don't have to vote in the elections.

 

[gouchobob]

My opinion is that the K's are leading Argentina only to more problems, I've articulated why I believe this on numerous occasions. What I have almost never heard here is any clear articulation by the people that think they are wonderful of what it is that they think the K's have done that's good(its pretty easy to find lots of negatives). Perhaps the supporters here can provide some sort of list of accomplishments that can be discussed freely here. After all if you can't articulate your position then why complain about the people that can. The supporters statements always seem vague and usually come down to you don't understand or your getting your information from the wrong sources. I would really like to hear a well reasoned argument why you support these people.

 

[Lucas]

This to ALL of the haters out there. If you don't like the Kirchner's politics that totally cool, and your right as a human being. But why not make some comments based on your own research as opposed to following what others say and something you may have read in the newspaper or on the internet but has never been proven. It's really easy to do that and shows how little intelligence some people have. Is the Kirchner administration perfect? no, and nobody claims it is. Have they done a lot of good for the country? yes how about focusing on the positive, housing, healthcare, marriage equality, promoting families and international relations?

Also, anybody who dares to take the risk of trying to run a country that has been through so much drama in the past 50 years, has my vote. Néstor (epd) and Cristina have guts and conviction, and those are values that most people don't have. I take my hat off to them for that and the other positive things they have done for Argentina! Viva Cristina!

"To the critics with no opinion of their own"

You're totally right asserting with that simple yet meaningful phrase what it's all about...

Those called "critics" base their opinions in the newspapers they read and the programs they hear and watch from certain monopolistic media conglomerates that have been ruining this country for so long and still doing the same nowadays by keeping the grip on the way the public get their information accepting unconditionally whatever lies and disinformation they wish to push submerging them in the deception and ignorance.

 

[marksoc]

Why I suport K: Some from the top of my head.

1- Inflation is better than 25% unemployment (60% in the poor areas) derived from tying peso emmisions to the dollar reserves. It is a problem to tackle, but it is better than 1995-2002 (when I and a lot of people more needed to leave the country).

2- Universal Child Allowance.

3- Extension of pension rights to a lot of people that worked "in black" and thus did not had pension rights.

4- Jail for the dictatorship murderers.

5- Not being the lap dog of the US anymore. An independent position in international relations, closer to other LatAm countries, a kind of united front.

6- Marriage for gays and lesbians. Decriminalization of pot.

7- The Media law, to finish with the oligopolies in the information sphere.

8- The recuperation of Channel 7 and the creation of the Encuentro cultural channel.

9- The recuperation of the scientific establishment, their wages and their place in society (now it is possible to more or less live with the allowance of the CONICET). Scientists can now do some science instead of working as taxi drivers. Also, the recuperation of cultural activities (which at the same time Macri is limiting).

10- A sense of hope in the lower classes.

11- A lot less corruption in government than before (the 1990s were terrible).

12- A return of politics as a way of change things.

What I dislike:

1- A sense of a direction for the future other than a vague pro-industrialist policy. How are we going to compete in a world owned by China? Not clear yet. It is not enough with being an agroindustrial potency.

2- A failure to dismantle the corruption structures of the police and the robber barons that own the Buenos Aires Metropolitan townships (the old peronist intendentes). This could change with the support of Sabatella and eventually Binner.

3- Barrick Gold and other multinational conglomerates. Our natural resources should be more properly managed.

4- Too much poverty still, we are not going fast enough to solve the disaster of 2001.

5- Too much leniency towards the privatized service companies. I should have kicked Telefonica from the country a long time ago, ditto for the toll road companies. The train services should have been re-estatized fiver years ago.

6- Some of the subsidies need to end. We are subsidizing the extraordinary profits of some of the privatized services. Electricity I can understand, but the transport needs to be sincered gradually, it is difficult since most of poor workers live outside the city and need the cheap train to get to their jobs Maybe more people need to be moved inside the city, instead of continuing with the urban sprawl in the GBA. Moving companies to the interior is difficult unless you want to give them gifts (tax cuts) that in the end are innefective.

7- More support for the creation of worker-owned business.

 

[bsas]

To all the minions who eat the K's propaganda hook, line, and sinker, if you don't like the opposition, that's ok too. Two quick requests though... Just, for the love of god, admit once and for all that Menem and Kirchner come from the SAME political party, and maybe, just maybe, accept that the numerous news articles printed in publications both in Argentina and around the world that present issues that don't reflect well on the government COULD be based on fact, and not some US-based conspiracy to bring down the revolution at the hands of the oligarchy.

Sound good?

You can't have any sort of political discussion when you approach it this way.

 

[marksoc]

Menem and Kirchner come from the SAME political party

They came from the same political party. Their economic policies oppose each other, and policy in other areas is completely different as well. Kirchnerim is close to classical Peronism. M**** was a neocon (privatization, strict monetary policy, etc).

 

[dr__dawggy]

They came from the same political party. Their economic policies oppose each other, and policy in other areas is completely different as well. Kirchnerim is close to classical Peronism. M**** was a neocon (privatization, strict monetary policy, etc).

It took me some time to wrap my head around this truth: To win a country-wide election in Argentina requires membership in the Peronist party but there are so many different stripes of Peronismo that party-identity does not say much about a candidate's beliefs.

As you say, the K's and Menem were 180 degrees apart in their approach to the role of government. Where I may disagree with you is around corruption....if the K's are less corrupt than Menem it is only because Menem had more money to pilfer than the K's from the sale of all the public utilities to the private sector.

 

[Davidglen77]

"Haters" is an inapproriate, inarticulate and unintelligent term used to apply to anyone who disagrees with your opinion.

I respect your opinion, no leaders are perfect. And, we can never fully know what fully s happening anywhere in the world, even where we live. We can and will extrapolate based on what we see with our own lies, the corruption we have to deal with day-to-day, the truth everytime we buy something that increases in price incredibly (which Cristinina says is a lie). Yes there are positives to any administration, but there is no problem talking about the negatives.

Yes, sometimes we rant.

Ranting is not a criticism of Argentina, it is just plain therapy, and those overly sensitive foreigners and Argentines who prowl here and shake their holierthanthou fingers at us just don´t get it. I hear the same thing from latinos about my homeland, especially Argentines, who do not think I understand their overheard conversations in Spanish, when I go home for a visit...and yunno, I don´t get offended.

Here we have a difference of opinion as to what the term "haters" means and in what context I used it. I did not use it with the implied meaning "to anyone who disagrees with my opinion" "Haters" are people who vehemently disagree or hate something and I feel it was appropriately used here because there is so much hate being spewed from certain people when they speak of the K's administration and the only comments that are used to support that hate are the same ones that are published in the newspapers and repeated on television.
There are very few people who will form opinions based on their own experiences, and that is exactly what happens on this board regarding this subject MOST not ALL of the time. I'd say 90% having read comments now for about 4 years.
Like I said earlier, it's really easy to jump on the bandwagon of people who just simply repeat comments because the majority are stating them or they are being spoken loudly enough to influence people to believe them. I suggest people here, since we are guests and / or immigrants to this country at least give the leaders the courtesy of finding out what they TRULY have and have not done before spewing more political venom. Part of the problem here and all over the world these days is the constant mudslinging. I know this wont happen in my lifetime but it would be really productive if maybe the intelligent life on this board could manage it. Let's see what some of the issues REALLY are and have discussions about THE ISSUES, not make it personal, and "ad hominem". Maybe there will be a few centimeters of actual progress made instead of creating more and more anger, discontent, and useless fighting. I may or may not be the only one who feels this way here, but I personally am tired of the infighting and would like to see some actual progress and hope for a positive future in my new home country.