To the critics with no opinion of their own

[bsas]

Nobody lost anything! Do your homework before making those kinds of statements!

This is just completely wrong. The government forced private funds to sell their assets in Brasil and repatriate the money. This occurred in Nov 2008, at the bottom of the market. The Real was worth about half of what it's worth today, while the peso has since fallen in value about 20 percent.

So if you had 1000 reales invested in brazil in 2008, they were sold into dollars and then into pesos by order of your beloved Kristina. That got you about 1432 pesos when converted from reales to dollars to pesos.

Today those 1000 reales would be worth 2352 pesos by doing the same operation.

This doesn't even take into account the fact that asset prices were very low because of the panic. So the losses are even higher.

 

[John.St]

There are many English, French, and American sayings that try to help keep discussions like these positive, "People who live in glass houses, ... " "We look at ourselves and weep, ..." "Don't sh*t where you eat" "Pissing into the wind" and so on. Are there any related Argentine sayings that we can learn while we are at it?

I am not sure if this is original Argentino or a translation from another language: Es un pajero malo que mea en su nido - It's a bad bird which shits in its own nest.

 

[Davidglen77]

This is just completely wrong. The government forced private funds to sell their assets in Brasil and repatriate the money. This occurred in Nov 2008, at the bottom of the market. The Real was worth about half of what it's worth today, while the peso has since fallen in value about 20 percent.

So if you had 1000 reales invested in brazil in 2008, they were sold into dollars and then into pesos by order of your beloved Kristina. That got you about 1432 pesos when converted from reales to dollars to pesos.

Today those 1000 reales would be worth 2352 pesos by doing the same operation.

This doesn't even take into account the fact that asset prices were very low because of the panic. So the losses are even higher.

Like I said Nobody Lost Anything, do your homework!

If market conditions caused the value of your money to go down, how is it the president of Argentina's fault? That is called bad timing. I had money in a 401K plan in the USA and that decreased significantly in value, so should I blame Obama? It's all related to the economic downturn and the times.......period. Not the president of this or any other country.

 

[bsas]

Like I said Nobody Lost Anything, do your homework!

If market conditions caused the value of your money to go down, how is it the president of Argentina's fault? That is called bad timing. I had money in a 401K plan in the USA and that decreased significantly in value, so should I blame Obama? It's all related to the economic downturn and the times.......period. Not the president of this or any other country.

Because it was the president of Argentinas decision to sell YOUR assets. YOU decided to invest money in a 401 k. There's a huge difference that is a key to why Argentina is in the position it's in.

 

[jazrgz]

Very simple. im a local.
Menem=Kirchner in terms of corruption and total lack of respect of our consitution and also, and most importantly, in the fact that their main goal into getting in the presidency was to grow richer and more powerful. They were both very successfull in this selfless goal. please, if any kirchner defender can deny this fact (dont think so) and if not at least come out and say it very loudly and clear, im ok with this It would be great (im yet to find a K that acknowledges this, they rather pretend is not real and change subject)
Kirchner controlled for several years the congress, the judicial branch (still does), the federal police and the buenos aires police (one of the largest corruption pools only can be controlled by the baddest of them all and still controles it - aka kirchner), the executive branch (this goes without saying of course, all ministers on this branch have been reduced to mear puppets who will do and say as they´re told word by word. Whoever dares to even speak a word different will be kicked out automatically) and for quite sometime now K has unleashed a fiercefull battle against the media in order to control it all (luckily has not succeded..regardless clarin´s reputation and history, i much rather have a voice of discent than a real monopolized media that would again, do and say as told (6,7,8 being the perfect example - again, any K´s out there, please speak up on this and say out loud how independent and free of speach this "show" is)
Kirchner followers and the equivalent to Menem´s followers 20 years ago. Defend their heroes blindly conveniently overseeing their corruption, their obvscene bank accounts and impunity that protects them.
Back in the 90´s ppl would say argentina was doing great because everyone was able to travel abroad all over the world (how can we not be ok if come summer everbody goes to europe, us, Asi or brazil). Now adays i hear a lot about the record in car sales (how can we not be ok if cars are being sold like candy)
Well, i have a better than average salary and in now way i can afford a brand new car (me or most ppls i know in the same salary range, cant even imagine ppls with average salary or less which in this country that millions upon millions). This fact only leads me to believe that the richer are getting richer, the have more money to waste and so they get a new car i guess or two, who knows.
a basic VW gol, which is about the cheapest new car you can get it goes for about 42K (average monthly salary being what, 2500 pesos at most?) !! Can anyone honestly say that everyone is getting new cars ???
There are still children dying of hunger up in the north !!!!!!!!! (that´s completaly lack of interest, there´s no other explanation to it, please K´s, again, elaborate as to how impossible is to keep this from happening and despite Kirchner´s best intentions he cannot do anything about it). He´s got hundreds of millions to spend on expanding his "loyal" followers, but he cannot spare a fraction of that money for a real cause that needs solving now !
Hugo Moyano !! (no further comments needed)
Drug dealing has never in our history been so prosper and thriving !! I guess some areas are doing great !! :S (the fact that our borders are being kept wide open in land, air and water and huge factors among many others of course. this being a clear policy of this administration, guarding our borders would be offensive to our neighbor countries (and would be a huge hurdle to the prosperity of the previously mentioned thriving area)
The list goes on and on endlessly, im at work and i gotta get back to it

 

[Davidglen77]

Because it was the president of Argentinas decision to sell YOUR assets. YOU decided to invest money in a 401 k. There's a huge difference that is a key to why Argentina is in the position it's in.

In the USA it had been proposed many many times for people to be able to direct a percentage or all of their social security contributions into private funds of their own picking. The idea has been squashed over and over and is not even spoken about any more. The free market is way too volatile to risk their state required contributions to the retirement funds. The contributions that were passed back to ANSES here were contributions that were the state mandated ones. They were not funds that were additional (as in a 401K) that were passed back into a pool of state funds. Those are FACTS.

 

[perry]

1. Read the thread. Numerous posts have pictured the USA on the verge of Collapse. I did not introduce this subject. I simply chose to refute this false notion.

2. Read my post. I used statistics to show that while the USA is not as robust as it should be,it is recovering nicely from a recession.


3. Read the links re: "independent" corroboration-- the Dow Jones Industrial Average has nearly doubled since the economic collapse and that the rate of unemployment is down. These are facts not propaganda, corporate or otherwise.

The USA has been designed to collapse and the writing is on the wall from all angles . Facts are presented below
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...utered-defanged-declawed-and-deindustrialized


The following are 21 signs that the once great U.S. economy is being gutted, neutered, defanged, declawed and deindustrialized....
#1 The U.S. trade deficit with the rest of the world rose to 497.8 billion dollars in 2010. That represented a 32.8% increase from 2009.
#2 The U.S. trade deficit with China rose to an all-time record of 273.1 billion dollars in 2010. This is the largest trade deficit that one nation has had with another nation in the history of the world.
#3 The U.S. trade deficit with China in 2010 was 27 times larger than it was back in 1990.
#4 In the years since 1975, the United States had run a total trade deficit of 7.5 trillion dollars with the rest of the world.
#5 The United States spends more than 4 dollars on goods and services from China for every one dollar that China spends on goods and services from the United States.
#6 In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of all U.S. economic output. In 2008, it represented only 11.5 percent and it continues to fall.
#7 The number of net jobs gained by the U.S. economy during this past decade was smaller than during any other decade since World War 2.
#8 The Bureau of Labor Statistics originally predicted that the U.S. economy would create approximately 22 million jobs during the decade of the 2000s, but it turns out that the U.S. economy only produced about 7 million jobs during that time period.
#9 Japan now manufactures about 5 million more automobiles than the United States does.
#10 China has now become the world's largest exporter of high technology products.
#11 Manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry is actually lower in 2010 than it was in 1975.
#12 The United States now has 10 percent fewer "middle class jobs" than it did just ten years ago.
#13 According to Tax Notes, between 1999 and 2008 employment at the foreign affiliates of U.S. parent companies increased an astounding 30 percent to 10.1 million. During that exact same time period, U.S. employment at American multinational corporations declined 8 percent to 21.1 million.
#14 Back in 1970, 25 percent of all jobs in the United States were manufacturing jobs. Today, only 9 percent of the jobs in the United States are manufacturing jobs.
#15 Back in 1998, the United States had 25 percent of the world’s high-tech export market and China had just 10 percent. Ten years later, the United States had less than 15 percent and China's share had soared to 20 percent.
#16 The number of Americans that have become so discouraged that they have given up searching for work completely now stands at an all-time high.
#17 Half of all American workers now earn $505 or less per week.
#18 The United States has lost a staggering 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.
#19 Since 2001, over 42,000 U.S. factories have closed down for good.
#20 In 2008, 1.2 billion cellphones were sold worldwide. So how many of them were manufactured inside the United States? Zero.
#21 Ten years ago, the "employment rate" in the United States was about 64%. Since then it has been constantly declining and now the "employment rate" in the United States is only about 58%. So where did all of those jobs go?

 

[bsas]

In the USA it had been proposed many many times for people to be able to direct a percentage or all of their social security contributions into private funds of their own picking. The idea has been squashed over and over and is not even spoken about any more. The free market is way too volatile to risk their state required contributions to the retirement funds. The contributions that were passed back to ANSES here were contributions that were the state mandated ones. They were not funds that were additional (as in a 401K) that were passed back into a pool of state funds. Those are FACTS.

Actually I'd argue that the US government simply needs every cent it can get to fund its current social security obligations, and the system will be broke long before you and I are old enough to receive any payments.

However, your post wasn't a love fest for the Obama administration. Rather, you asked for specific fact-based criticisms of the current regime in Argentina, and this is one main criticism. There is no transparency, meaning that the rules of the game are arbitrary, and are generally based on what's most politically expedient at the time. That leads directly to a drop in investment and what's known as 'capital flight'. Local and international investors simply don't want to take the risk of putting money in something that the government may just decide to 'nationalize', and that concern is a direct result of the actions of your beloved Kristina.

Maybe you'll feel better to know that its not the first time that the retirement funds were manhandled by the government.
http://articles.latimes.com/2001/dec/07/business/fi-12290

 

[bsas]

In the USA it had been proposed many many times for people to be able to direct a percentage or all of their social security contributions into private funds of their own picking. The idea has been squashed over and over and is not even spoken about any more. The free market is way too volatile to risk their state required contributions to the retirement funds. The contributions that were passed back to ANSES here were contributions that were the state mandated ones. They were not funds that were additional (as in a 401K) that were passed back into a pool of state funds. Those are FACTS.

well since my attempted response was eaten by the site sponsored censor. I'll just say quickly that who gives a s##t what the USA does. This wasn't an obama love fest post. You wanted fact-based criticisms of the current regime. In Argentina there is no respect for law, and no transparency to the market. The law stated that those retirement funds were privately managed, but it became politically expedient to get a hold of those funds, the law be damned. As a result, money for investment goes elsewhere and the country is worse off for it.

 

[dr__dawggy]

The USA has been designed to collapse and the writing is on the wall from all angles . Facts are presented below
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...utered-defanged-declawed-and-deindustrialized


The following are 21 signs that the once great U.S. economy is being gutted, neutered, defanged, declawed and deindustrialized....
#1 The U.S. trade deficit with the rest of the world rose to 497.8 billion dollars in 2010. That represented a 32.8% increase from 2009.
#2 The U.S. trade deficit with China rose to an all-time record of 273.1 billion dollars in 2010. This is the largest trade deficit that one nation has had with another nation in the history of the world.
#3 The U.S. trade deficit with China in 2010 was 27 times larger than it was back in 1990.
#4 In the years since 1975, the United States had run a total trade deficit of 7.5 trillion dollars with the rest of the world.
#5 The United States spends more than 4 dollars on goods and services from China for every one dollar that China spends on goods and services from the United States.
#6 In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of all U.S. economic output. In 2008, it represented only 11.5 percent and it continues to fall.
#7 The number of net jobs gained by the U.S. economy during this past decade was smaller than during any other decade since World War 2.
#8 The Bureau of Labor Statistics originally predicted that the U.S. economy would create approximately 22 million jobs during the decade of the 2000s, but it turns out that the U.S. economy only produced about 7 million jobs during that time period.
#9 Japan now manufactures about 5 million more automobiles than the United States does.
#10 China has now become the world's largest exporter of high technology products.
#11 Manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry is actually lower in 2010 than it was in 1975.
#12 The United States now has 10 percent fewer "middle class jobs" than it did just ten years ago.
#13 According to Tax Notes, between 1999 and 2008 employment at the foreign affiliates of U.S. parent companies increased an astounding 30 percent to 10.1 million. During that exact same time period, U.S. employment at American multinational corporations declined 8 percent to 21.1 million.
#14 Back in 1970, 25 percent of all jobs in the United States were manufacturing jobs. Today, only 9 percent of the jobs in the United States are manufacturing jobs.
#15 Back in 1998, the United States had 25 percent of the world’s high-tech export market and China had just 10 percent. Ten years later, the United States had less than 15 percent and China's share had soared to 20 percent.
#16 The number of Americans that have become so discouraged that they have given up searching for work completely now stands at an all-time high.
#17 Half of all American workers now earn $505 or less per week.
#18 The United States has lost a staggering 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.
#19 Since 2001, over 42,000 U.S. factories have closed down for good.
#20 In 2008, 1.2 billion cellphones were sold worldwide. So how many of them were manufactured inside the United States? Zero.
#21 Ten years ago, the "employment rate" in the United States was about 64%. Since then it has been constantly declining and now the "employment rate" in the United States is only about 58%. So where did all of those jobs go?

Hopefully these troublesome facts will provide a wake up call to the USA. The US still has time to recover but I wonder about the will. Meanwhile, in the short term the economy is coming around.