Tourist killed in Plaza San Martin

Hello everyone, im a local- often a reader, first time poster.
I think this matter is a little more complex than the villa existing wherever it does, or poverty vs. riches. There a few other factors that lead specifically to the violence, and that have to do with drugs- the use of paco has become a widespread problem since the 2001 crisis- and the crimes have increased since then, the availability of weapons, police corruption, and a deep rooted resentment and hatred of "blanquitos" "rubios" and "gringos" and of "negros", "villeros", "pibe-chorros" etc... (which the government really likes to play up)-
There are other places where social inequality happens, so does theft, but murder and hatred is low, and the rich and the poor can coexist with relative respect for each other.
This country has changed a lot since 2001, and Buenos Aires, allthough hard to believe, used to be quite a safe city. There was still a lot of poverty before the crisis and supposedly the country has "recovered" financially from 2001, plus the government is giving the lower classes more financial benefits than they used to recieve and yet, insecurity in BA is rampant... This leads me to think that these acts are not just a consequence of the villa and the poor being close to the rich but rather the product of a violent society that is becoming more and more hateful-
 
Villa 31 - best remedy for residents and non-residents:
Bulldoze or torch the entire place. Auction rights to construct middle income housing (allow international companies to bid). Use proceeds from auction and taxes paid by apt owners to finance construction of low income housing on outskirts of city for displaced 31 residents on some equitable basis (last to squat is least preferred).
 
eberlibeberli said:
This leads me to think that these acts are not just a consequence of the villa and the poor being close to the rich but rather the product of a violent society that is becoming more and more hateful-

And where does the hate and resentment come from? Why do people "hate" the rubios, gringos, and the blanquitos? Why do other people hate the "negros" and the "villeros?" I would say the deeply rooted resentment and hatred comes from a deeply rooted past of inequality.

Argentina fares OK in terms of inequality these days. It's not as bad as Brazil or Venezuela. Up until the past few years, Rio de Janeiro was one of the most violent -- and unequal -- cities in the world. It still has a shocking homicide rate. And there are favelas just a block away from million dollar apartments...
 
Bulldoze or torch the entire place. Auction rights to construct middle income housing (allow international companies to bid). Use proceeds from auction and taxes paid by apt owners to finance construction of low income housing on outskirts of city for displaced 31 residents on some equitable basis (last to squat is least preferred).

No. They live there, is their land. The villa 31 is not new, is older than myself. Why poor people should live in the outskirts of the city? Build their houses exactly where they are now. And not by any "international contractors", by the State. Are you worried about poor people receiving something "they did not earn"? As if they were guilty of being poor.

Welcome to the 21th Century, the Century of Man, where each person has rights only because he/she exists.
 
The video is scary because it shows just how many people were around. I've stayed in hotels in the area, and walked through the park all the time during the day. Not exactly a threatening situation.


As for Villa 31, keeping a slum in such an important part of the city just because it's already there is idiotic. I'm fine with everyone saying there're good people there and they all shouldn't just be bussed outside the city and thrown off. But obviously there are problems that branch out directly from there. I was searching through some of the papers trying to read a bit about it and what's being proposed/done, and couldn't find much. But one article started out:

"Cada día que pasa, la villa 31 es más importante. Considerada durante mucho tiempo una pesadilla urbana, hoy es atracción turística,"

Yes, that's what I recommend to every tourist upon arriving - a quick stroll though Villa 31. Be sure to take a lot of pictures! Why romanticize poverty and crime? I'm not proposing bulldozing it and building Puerto Madero II. But the city and the people have to figure out something, and platitudes about rights for the poor won't solve anything.
 
bradlyhale said:
They are not the same, but they are inextricably linked. Someone who has nothing compared to some that have everything, coupled with no opportunities to get ahead themselves, is more likely to commit acts like these. It is not poverty itself that causes crime, but inequality. Look at the Roaring 20s (high economic growth for a few, high inequality, high crime) in the United States versus the Great Depression (higher levels of poverty across the board, lower inequality, less crime).

And not that it proves the point, but it is ironic that this happened in an area where the most expensive apartment in the city is located...alongside one of the most poorest areas in the country.



Well, that's easy for us to say. My grandfather's parents lived in a shack that was much smaller than many of the homes I visited in Ciudad Oculta and Villa Soladti. Of course, my grandfather and my father had an opportunity to get ahead, whereas most of those children in Villa 31 will spend their whole lives singing songs on the subway and juggling balls in the streets for coins. My grandfather was able to move out of the shack. Will these kids ever have the same opportunity?

I disagree with the premise that inequality is the cause of violent crime. I think it is just an excuse. I have walked into some desparately poor places in India, where they would consider a villa to be a great improvement over their spot on a sewer lined street, but they are friendly and willing to talk about their condition. Being poor does not give anyone the right to take things from others and worse to kill them. One of the basic human rights is the right to be protected from violent assaults.
 
I think the hatred and resentment to the rich or moderately well off etc.. comes from the idea that one person is poor because the other one is rich on one hand, that the rich owe the poor something that they took away from them- this is on both national and international levels- "Argentina is poor because of the bastards at the IMF, not because we have wrecked our own economy."
And I think the hatred for the poor comes from fear on two levels, on one hand the rich who to some degree allways fear that others are after what they have, and on another hand the middle class that needs to separate itself from the lower class in order not to become the lower class. I especially noticed this happening in 2001-02 when a lot of the middle class lost everything.
The deeply rooted past was mentioned and its interesting because Buenos Aires was founded for smuggling, so it didnt really get off on the right foot to start with. Then it was populated by different immigrants at different time periods due to government encouragements at first and then later on because of the world wars. Many of the initial immigrants who were expected to be educated wealthy Europeans that would bring education and technology turned out to be poor immigrants who saw an oportunity in the govt. benefits (lands, free schools..etc.) and instead of settling in the countryside to populate the country, as the government had planned,stayed in the city. (I would assume the educated wealthy europeans- usually from the north, and heence white and blonde, did get more benefits than the huge wave of southern europeans, so that could be one of the causes of resentment). A large group of the city immigrants were without work and the first villas and poor areas showed up obiously increasing with the influx of war immigration- Of course this is a very broad generalization and it is much more elaborate and complex than that.

This is not only about inequality, not only the poor are criminals, we have a very corrupt country with both rich, middle class and poor taking advantage of the harmless passer-by, unfortunately the local mentality is often very destructive.
 
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