Un Tipo Espectacular

pauper said:
This was his first test, or his first failure? Either way I'm scratching my head.
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As long as it's just your head your scratching, it is his first major PR gaffe/management failure in the post mid term election period.
 
Since my hijacking efforts were thwarted...

Back during Macri's last re-election campaign, Señor Durán Barba was on TN (a friendly forum if there ever was one) and was asked about the PRO campaign strategy. As he explained, he was a big admirer of US presidential campaign strategy, especially the tactics followed by Mark Penn for the Clinton presidency. When asked what he felt Macri could offer the people of Bs As, he said that their research showed that people wanted positive attitudes and lots of colours (thus the change in the Macri campaign from the Tonka yellow and black to the confetti motif).

Meanwhile, I was watching this whole interview in a villa in Soldati where the main thoroughfare had just flooded for three days because there were utterly neglected sewers and no public works. But sure, what the people want is pretty colours to look at. This was about the time my D-B related barfing fits started.

In the last debate this cycle between Filmus, Michetti and Pino, Solanas and Filmus both came out swinging with at least some kind of arguments, while Michetti was so obviously coached she could only rattle on about positive attitudes and being likeable. And I could just see it: the whole PRO/D-B strategy is to turn this into a Mark Penn US style political landscape. In the US people have no idea what candidates stand for and vote on personality and "likeability". Argentina has not been fully infected by that disease. Yet.
 
EdRooney said:
Since my hijacking efforts were thwarted...

Back during Macri's last re-election campaign, Señor Durán Barba was on TN (a friendly forum if there ever was one) and was asked about the PRO campaign strategy. As he explained, he was a big admirer of US presidential campaign strategy, especially the tactics followed by Mark Penn for the Clinton presidency. When asked what he felt Macri could offer the people of Bs As, he said that their research showed that people wanted positive attitudes and lots of colours (thus the change in the Macri campaign from the Tonka yellow and black to the confetti motif).

Meanwhile, I was watching this whole interview in a villa in Soldati where the main thoroughfare had just flooded for three days because there were utterly neglected sewers and no public works. But sure, what the people want is pretty colours to look at. This was about the time my D-B related barfing fits started.

In the last debate this cycle between Filmus, Michetti and Pino, Solanas and Filmus both came out swinging with at least some kind of arguments, while Michetti was so obviously coached she could only rattle on about positive attitudes and being likeable. And I could just see it: the whole PRO/D-B strategy is to turn this into a Mark Penn US style political landscape. In the US people have no idea what candidates stand for and vote on personality and "likeability". Argentina has not been fully infected by that disease. Yet.
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Yep, in a country where all that is frothy, frivolous and fizzy abounds on TV its surprising that in the political sphere Argentina is so far behind the civilised world on this point. But Barba, Bergman et al have bucketloads of the banal to bring to the table. Who knows? It might just catch on.
 
Good point; there is definitely a disgusting amount of personalism here (why does everything have to be Somebodyism...Peronism, Menemism, Kircherism...)

But still, there is a difference in how campaigns are conducted here. Here it's very much based on clientelism and people voting for the candidate they think is best for their economic/social/syndical group. Since Reagan and Thatcher, though, this has not been the case in more northerly climes. How do you get blue collar workers in middle America to vote for the Big-Business candidate? you sell them on the cowboy who is here to protect 'Mercian values from the atheist communist pinko left. Thus they end up voting against their own economic interests because of a huge PR campaign (interesting side note, am I the only one that was weirded out by Obama's 2008 campaign winning the PR industry's Campaign of the Year?)

In Argentina, things may be personalised, but it is more based on the (usually erroneous) idea that we'll get this candidate elected and she'll hook us up. Say what you will, theyre both kind of sick, but the Reagan/Thatcher/Mark Penn model has proven to be much more damaging to democracy.
 
I can't speak for the US system having never lived there. But being that Argentina is the first "democratic" country I've lived in I can't tell the difference between the current government here and the three dictatorships I lived under before so to me it gets kinda confusing when someone says something is damaging to democracy. I'm yet to live in a country where "democracy" is not "damaged" in one way or another.

In my opinion democracy only functions properly when both the people and the government know that the government is in place to serve the people, all people, regardless of the way they voted or the way they think. And as soon as someone from the government forgets that, they are sacked. For countries to achieve that, people need to be educated more than just with a degree or a diploma from universities but educated in common sense that more and more people coming out of colleges these days lack. And don't get me wrong, I am not talking about a capitalist system vs socialist one or any other form of government. Any kind of system can successfully function if people are aware and in control of what happens with their government. Expecting the government to be perfect and honest is childish. People need to be held accountable for what they do and those in positions of government even more so.

As for whether people in Argentina vote for their self interest and don't get manipulated like they do in the US...again, plenty of examples out there about "if you vote for someone else other than us, then you are going to go to the past" or "if you vote for PRO, you vote for the militars..." or some other sh*t like that.

As for what one says in a debate as opposed to another...anyone can say anything during a debate. What matters is what they do when they're given power. FPV, in my opinion, has managed to f*** the country sideways while PRO, again in my opinion, has done some good in the city while having to fight with the national government on everything. But my opinion of PRO is not like La Campora's opinion of Cristina. I am not loyal to PRO or Macri, I am loyal, as a resident of BsAs, to BsAs.
 
I vote this The Most Interesting Thread for many a long week.
Carry on chaps...
 
Back to the thread: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1638510-mauricio-macri-lo-de-jaime-duran-barba-es-un-tema-terminado

WTF is Macri thinking: "Ese es un tema que ya está terminado"

Interpretations?

Secondly, El legislador porteño electo, Iván Petrella, dijo en diálogo con Télam también tras participar del acto en el Templo Libertad: "Para mí, si no fuera por el uso político que se le está dando, el tema debería haber terminado. Fue una frase desacertada pero nadie que opere de buena fe puede creer que Durán es antisemita".

AYFKM?

Who gives a flying rat's @$$ if people can believe he's an antisemite or not, instead of defending this buffoon, fire him.
 
I don't want to turn this into PRO vs FpV (because to me that's like a fork in the kneecap vs a knife in the kidney).

For me what is important here is the discussion about how democratic a country is. I don't really buy into the idea that any country can be classified as a democracy; its rather the degree to which its people are able to have an effect on the policies implemented by the government. In this regard, I see the Durán Barba method as a huge step backwards, because its whole goal is to make the campaigns about Pretty Happy Rainbow Confetti People and not about the things that each community is actually concerned about. I'm not saying community concerns have heretofore been at the top of the agenda in Argie politics, but this PR method is definitely a step backwards.

For me the actual work this goober was hired to do, and was doing is far more disgusting and damaging than some foot-in-the-mouth soundbite about dead Nazis.
 
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