US Citizen Interested in moving to Buenos Aries

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I'm just trying to help you see that we can tell you all day long but until you jump in and start experiencing it for yourself, you're wasting your time attempting to contemplate all these variables. Locals don't plan for the future more than a month or so out and neither should you. Planning beyond this time line will drive you crazy. Hell by the time you attempt to get residency there might be a new president and the whole system will be different. You gotta ride the lightning here!
Amen! Some of the questions here remind me of my innocent self 10 years ago when I got my first taste of Argentina-fetish, constantly trying to make sense of Argentina with futile arguments like "but on paper it does not seem so bad" and "but in other countries, it works" and "how do you plan for that" and "maybe it will get better in time" etc. No, just no, no, no... it is... well, it's Argentina.

Nowdays the all of the above arguments just serve me in hypothetical and idealistic rants of how the country should be when I want to let off some steam.
 
Gonna give you a few tips here.

It's already like that my dude. Come visit and stay longer than 5 months. Enough time for you to do the little things like go to a bank or buy groceries or pay bills, or fly/drive within the country. Enough time for the tourist glasses to come off. Then start considering permanent decisions. Right now you're worrying about things that as an "American" you can't possibly get your hands around. BTW There's at least 6 different dollars, chew on that for a bit.

In terms of Healthcare, I can see what you're envisioning, the same thing we have in the states but at 100/mo. Wrong. You should envision a clinic with people all drinking out of the same cup, people making sandwiches on a panini press right on the front desk. A guy who takes your urine sample without donning a glove, the walls have dirty hand prints from 75 years of people walking along them. Get an xray? Put on the same gown that is hanging on the wall that the same person before you (and probably 100s more) wore. And this is the "expensive" private insurance clinic all perfectly normal here.

Have you ever been to a Walmart and thought about drinking out of the water cooler except there's only one cup and you stand there in the checkout line for 45 min while you see at least 5 or 6 people walk up and drink out of the cup and put it back on to the cooler for the next person? Or if you want to pay with your CC but you have to wait for them to call the CC machine keeper guy to bring the one machine in the entire store to the register? And you can see him after they yell to him and he continues to have a charla with another employee while you stand there waiting?

You can't pump your own gas. You have to sit in your truck while you wait for a guy to decide to come over and fill your tank.

One day last winter the entire country didn't have electricity.

I've been to over 30 countries but this one is unique. It's simple yet frustrating at the same time. I learn new things every day about how stuff works here. Every day is an adventure.

I'm just trying to help you see that we can tell you all day long but until you jump in and start experiencing it for yourself, you're wasting your time attempting to contemplate all these variables. Locals don't plan for the future more than a month or so out and neither should you. Planning beyond this time line will drive you crazy. Hell by the time you attempt to get residency there might be a new president and the whole system will be different. You gotta ride the lightning here!
I have personally seen every one of these behaviors. Great job explaining it all JBlaze.

"Enough time for the tourist glasses to come off." (Well said.)

If you have to shake and move / produce, you are going to pull your hair out of your head. Things don't function in Argentina like in EE UU. As a matter of fact, they just don't function.

If you have your good health, are laid back, have nothing important to do, have a mountain of money in a foreign bank as well as a passive income, none of this stuff really will bother a person. A well funded person can live a life of leisure in Argentina, have what they want and be left alone if they keep a low profile. Otherwise, if you like attention, you will get plenty and a lot of it will come from the wrong people because they will want what you possess.

A word to the wise about how that well funded person handles it all. (It's work - It's their job!) There is a bit of shopping in the country, some of it very good, but you are going to pay more than somewhere else in most cases. So, the solution is ... travel a couple of times a year and when you do ,,, that is when you have better selection at better prices. Generally in the form of clothing to name one important group of things and definitely in the form of electronics to name another. If you don't like to cook, there are plenty of places to eat ... (I like to cook!) But life revolves around doing nothing important if you have the means ... keep your house well stocked with everything you need and use. Have a level alert in i=mind and be diligent at keeping your inventory rotated and at maximum level. BECAUSE - There will be times when the store shelves go empty and you will be thankful you prepared in advance.
 
Amen! Some of the questions here remind me of my innocent self 10 years ago when I got my first taste of Argentina-fetish, constantly trying to make sense of Argentina with futile arguments like "but on paper it does not seem so bad" and "but in other countries, it works" and "how do you plan for that" and "maybe it will get better in time" etc. No, just no, no, no... it is... well, it's Argentina.

Nowdays the all of the above arguments just serve me in hypothetical and idealistic rants of how the country should be when I want to let off some steam.
Living in the past is a waste of time. Planning for the future is wise, but don't obsess over it. FOCUS ON THE PRESENT, that is where you currently are. Point being, just experience it ... don't over think it or think you can tame it (Argentina).

If Sequoia comes here, he will see all this clearly.
 
Somebody should point Sequioa to Uruguay, since it seems to be the default recommendation to this kind of query (see other recent threads) and is a country that addresses many of his concerns. If it stays virus-free (which ultimately is unlikely, but that's another issue), he could even visit it in the forseeable future, an option he is unlikely to have for a very long time in coronavirus-plagued and economically collapsed Argentina.
 
If you have your good health, are laid back, have nothing important to do, have a mountain of money in a foreign bank as well as a passive income, none of this stuff really will bother a person. A well funded person can live a life of leisure in Argentina, have what they want and be left alone if they keep a low profile. Otherwise, if you like attention, you will get plenty and a lot of it will come from the wrong people because they will want what you possess.

Well Said , no one could have done it better... If you have plenty of money can have a really leisure life in BA, cleaning personnel , assistants to do your chores. Brunch at the Alvear Hotel, dinner at the Recova Mirasol Resto, don Julio, etc. Awesome steaks Pretty good Espumantes and wines.
Plenty of choice company..!
After the Pandemic the Best shows in Calle Corrientes if you know Spanish.
Excellent weather..!
Many of us are here because it's Cheaper, The Cost/Benefit Ratio is favorable.
If one had all the cash Europe would be a natural destination.. For the reasons we all know. To go splurge not save..!
 
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Rich One: El Mirasol is open for delivery and take away now. It was closed for a while and delivering from Pto. Madero, too far.

Negroni, the best burgers in this area, closed without warning a week ago. Left me in tears!

Iz
 
What you say doesn't sound good, and very different than what I saw from the BA youtube street walking tours where everything for the most part seemed neat and clean, restaurants seemed clean, looked like European quality, depends on neighborhood I imagine, and also read Argentina health care rating is very high. But I think what you say must be accurate as well. Of course I would need to visit first before deciding, but right now I'm trying to do the research to determine if I should visit. Do you have any other recommendations of places that might be good. Right now I'm researching Valencia, Spain.
I have shopped for real estate in both Spain (Alicante 40 min away from Valencia by car) and Buenos Aires. If you like what you see in Youtube, Spain is your country. The real estate price is about the same in the best area of Valencia and that of Recoleta and Palermo. And the apartment is bigger and street is cleaner. Valencia does not have the big city vibe like BA, but it's big enough with 1m+ people, 10 min to the beach from center by taxi.
All the problems you might run into in BA, you won't have have it in Valencia. Building expense and city tax (no city tax) is much lower, at about 50 euro and real estate tax is about 1000E. With the peso devaluation, maybe building expense is much lower now in BA, but it used to be 200 to 500 dollar a month for a small shitty apt. Medical care in Spain is great if not better. A short train ride you are in France and Paris, or boat ride to Spanish islands in Africa or Mediterranean ocean, just 1 hour from Valencia by ferry. Spain has much more food selection, better sea food, Argentina has better lomo. Valencia has 300 sunny days a year. By the way, neither city in Texas has better weather than BA, and Valencia has the best weather. Texas has shitty weather, you have to pay someone who lives in California to move to Texas (no offense to Texans ). Only people who grow up in Texas will accept the shitty weather in Texas(again no offense to Texans). Basically Valencia is like San Diego, with sunshine and things to do, and strong European flair.

Your 300k will last just as long as in BA. After you spend your 300k, good luck :). It's also much easier to find a job in Spain as a gringo. Alicante is full of foreigners who speak English(drunk aholes from UK and German tourists, who are also drunk). In terms of income and life quality, Spain is 1 to 2 notch above Argentina. Average income at small city is about 1400 euro a month, and in Argentina ? a fraction of that. Spain belongs to the developed country circle and Argentina, many Argentines call their country a third world country. But Plaermo and Recoleta are way better than average neighborood, 160k dollars can only get you a low quality or modest one bedroom, maybe just studio. And you can get a 2 bedroom in a middle class neighborhood area for 180k. Buying process is much more pleasant in Spain. Buying in Argentina, you feel all your lawyers and your agents are trying to screw you (my agent in BA was good, no problems). You can not get a loan as a foreigner. In Spain, yes, if you put 50% down and show your asset in US, you can get a loan at 2.5%, free money. If you were able to get a loan in Argentina, guess what interest you will pay ? 30% a year, and they do not even loan you. Still want to move to BA ?

If you buy a 200k apt in Spain, you put 100k down, your monthly payment is only 550 euros month. When you are not in Spain, you can rent it for 1200 euros to drunk European tourists. You save 100k cash and have some romantic fun in Europe. Hope this helps you. Usually I charge $400/hour for this kind of consulting with detailed info, but you can take it for free. :) I am not saying Spain is better, you probably can have more exotic experience in Argentina. But if you expect things are nicely run like in Texas, Spain is much closer to your expectation. I have been visiting Argentina from 2002 till a couple of years ago, it changed my life. If I have to do it again, I will just rent and not buy. Buy it if you have millions of waste.
 
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In Argentina, you can live like locals, things can be cheaper if you know how to shop. In Spain, there are no cheap things. Many lower income people, maybe half of them in Spain, spend everything by the of the month. In Argentina, it's worse, many do not have basic things that gringos take for granted. One time I was looking at one apt by Palermo Alto, the apt was quite empty, I asked the real estate agent if the tenant or owner moved out, the real estate agent said no, they live there, they just do not have many things like Yankees.
 
Well Said , no one could have done it better... If you have plenty of money can have a really leisure life in BA, cleaning personnel , assistants to do your chores. Brunch at the Alvear Hotel, dinner at the Recova Mirasol Resto, don Julio, etc. Awesome steaks Pretty good Espumantes and wines.
Plenty of choice company..!
After the Pandemic the Best shows in Calle Corrientes if you know Spanish.
Excellent weather..!
Many of us are here because it's Cheaper, The Cost/Benefit Ratio is favorable.
If one had all the cash Europe would be a natural destination.. For the reasons we all know. To go splurge not save..!
Thanks Rich One,

About the Europe thing, at least for me, I would decline. SA (South America) to me feels like home. (I am from somewhere else, but it feels like home, it's very comfortable to me.) Europe for all that it has to offer, and it is quite a lot, does not feel like home. I'll take Argenitna's distinct personality, it's inefficiencies and everything else you could place in the column on the side of it's negatives and I WILL WORK WITH IT. Simply because it feels like home.

And Garryl made another great point I just noticed. (I was planning on hi lighting it either way because it is very important.) The cost of living in Argentina is vastly lower than it's European counterparts. And that makes it a lower barrier for your money to make you feel rich.

Over in Europe to live well above the crowd, you will need some serious resources. In Argentina, you can KILL IT with considerably less ... (The number is still large, but not nearly as large as it would need to be in Europe.)

Like I have already stated in a recent post of mine, (I think I may start a thread on this soon because it is a very important subject ... look for it ... I will get to it soon.) the minimum war chest to function in Argentina without lifting a finger and being BULLET PROOF is $500K USD with a passive income of $25K per year. $250K of the $500K invested for a divided yield in the 7% area (QUITE DO ABLE.) The other $250K set aside for emergencies in short term interest bearing instruments in a laddered array. And if you are confident, the number could be $125K and there other $125 could be invested aggressively for capital appreciation ... over the course of 3 / 5 / 10 years ... it would be reasonable to expect a return of 2x 5x depending upon how sharp you are / how good of a stock picker you are. So that $125 becomes $250K to $625K (No tax obligation calculated.) and your personal picture gets a bit rosier. But it requires ability, confidence and patience to make it all work ... most people lack the ingredients I mention.
 
Yes, I am going to start a new thread soon ... It is going to be on the topic of BEING BULLET PROOF in Argentina. What a foreigner should bring to the table to live a good life and be above it all, or at least most of it anyway ... to live a good, worry free life.

And I have an interesting thing I want to share with the board, but I need to research it first. (I think I am correct, but I want to explore it before I start talking about it. And of course, so many of you may know a lot more about it than me, so I will happily welcome participation on this one.)

Give me a few days to get this thought out ...
 
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