US Citizen Interested in moving to Buenos Aries

[garryl]

Thanks Rich One,

About the Europe thing, at least for me, I would decline. SA (South America) to me feels like home. (I am from somewhere else, but it feels like home, it's very comfortable to me.) Europe for all that it has to offer, and it is quite a lot, does not feel like home. I'll take Argenitna's distinct personality, it's inefficiencies and everything else you could place in the column on the side of it's negatives and I WILL WORK WITH IT. Simply because it feels like home.

And Garryl made another great point I just noticed. (I was planning on hi lighting it either way because it is very important.) The cost of living in Argentina is vastly lower than it's European counterparts. And that makes it a lower barrier for your money to make you feel rich.

Over in Europe to live well above the crowd, you will need some serious resources. In Argentina, you can KILL IT with considerably less ... (The number is still large, but not nearly as large as it would need to be in Europe.)

Like I have already stated in a recent post of mine, (I think I may start a thread on this soon because it is a very important subject ... look for it ... I will get to it soon.) the minimum war chest to function in Argentina without lifting a finger and being BULLET PROOF is $500K USD with a passive income of $25K per year. $250K of the $500K invested for a divided yield in the 7% area (QUITE DO ABLE.) The other $250K set aside for emergencies in short term interest bearing instruments in a laddered array. And if you are confident, the number could be $125K and there other $125 could be invested aggressively for capital appreciation ... over the course of 3 / 5 / 10 years ... it would be reasonable to expect a return of 2x 5x depending upon how sharp you are / how good of a stock picker you are. So that $125 becomes $250K to $625K (No tax obligation calculated.) and your personal picture gets a bit rosier. But it requires ability, confidence and patience to make it all work ... most people lack the ingredients I mention.

That's true. You can be just an average Joe in Europe. Even though the average wage in Southern Europe is way lower than that of US big cities, there are tons of wealthy people, daily products can be expensive, if not careful, money goes out fast. Europeans have the same living standard as Americans except that they have smaller houses and much smaller cars. I have lived in Europe for 2 years, it does start to feel like home finally, once you have your friends in town and your favorite massage places(and telos ), and your maid from Georgia, your painter from Albania You can feel like home, but not rich. Maybe in Argentina, you can feel differently and Argentines have genuine interest to know the outside world, Asia, US and Europe and Mexico. Europeans have seen it all, may not be that interested in you.

 

[sts7049]

on the topic of healthcare, here's a funny anecdote about a coworker of mine in neuquen who had his appendix removed a couple of years ago.

i haven't had mine removed, but i guess it's common when it's removed to do cancer screenings on and such just to make sure. well, he went in for surgery and they removed the appendix. at some point after he had healed up a bit, i guess when he was being discharged, my coworker had to go himself to the hospital room or wherever they were storing his now removed appendix, pick up HIS OWN APPENDIX in a box, and drive it to another clinic to do these screenings. the guy drove his own organ.

 

[Rich One]

Somebody should point Sequioa to Uruguay, since it seems to be the default recommendation to this kind of query (see other recent threads) and is a country that addresses many of his concerns. If it stays virus-free (which ultimately is unlikely, but that's another issue), he could even visit it in the forseeable future, an option he is unlikely to have for a very long time in coronavirus-plagued and economically collapsed Argentina.

Thanks Rich One,

About the Europe thing, at least for me, I would decline. SA (South America) to me feels like home. (I am from somewhere else, but it feels like home, it's very comfortable to me.) Europe for all that it has to offer, and it is quite a lot, does not feel like home. I'll take Argenitna's distinct personality, it's inefficiencies and everything else you could place in the column on the side of it's negatives and I WILL WORK WITH IT. Simply because it feels like home.

And Garryl made another great point I just noticed. (I was planning on hi lighting it either way because it is very important.) The cost of living in Argentina is vastly lower than it's European counterparts. And that makes it a lower barrier for your money to make you feel rich.

Over in Europe to live well above the crowd, you will need some serious resources. In Argentina, you can KILL IT with considerably less ... (The number is still large, but not nearly as large as it would need to be in Europe.)

Like I have already stated in a recent post of mine, (I think I may start a thread on this soon because it is a very important subject ... look for it ... I will get to it soon.) the minimum war chest to function in Argentina without lifting a finger and being BULLET PROOF is $500K USD with a passive income of $25K per year. $250K of the $500K invested for a divided yield in the 7% area (QUITE DO ABLE.) The other $250K set aside for emergencies in short term interest bearing instruments in a laddered array. And if you are confident, the number could be $125K and there other $125 could be invested aggressively for capital appreciation ... over the course of 3 / 5 / 10 years ... it would be reasonable to expect a return of 2x 5x depending upon how sharp you are / how good of a stock picker you are. So that $125 becomes $250K to $625K (No tax obligation calculated.) and your personal picture gets a bit rosier. But it requires ability, confidence and patience to make it all work ... most people lack the ingredients I mention.

Tigre..
One Caveat when I meant that with plenty of Cash to splurge the choice would be EU , I didn't mean 2nd, tier cities in Portugal or Spain, but Paris, Berlin, London, Madrid, Rome , etc. Also not to disregard Prague and Vienna. . Go for the best . Life is too short..!



Carpe Diem /Seize the Day

 

[Iznogud]

The charm of this country is its chaos and fredom. For now.

Iz

 

[Rich One]

The charm of this country is its chaos and fredom. For now.

Iz

The main attraction is European"ambiance" at sudaca prices. Beats Bolivia , Ecuador, Paraguay, Chile , Venezuela, Peru, Mexico, Central America.

 

[jblaze5779]

The debate of whether it is better to live a rich life in Argentina or an average Joe life in Europe is interesting. I think it may be an apples to oranges comparison. I would propose that Avg Joe Euro probably leads a better quality life than that of Rich Juan Arg. Just walk into a Carrefour in Europe and a Carrefour in Arg, they aren't even in the same universe of comparison. The Carrefour Europe is a HEB central market and the Carrefour ARG is a clapped out dollar general.

I've never lived in Europe, only visited with my tourist glasses but just with that info I think I would maybe choose Avg Joe Euro. I just like being able to go to the store and get things I need makes my life much easier. I never had issues with ancient processes or super poor customer service in all of my previous travels around the world. (Again though, only as a tourist) I try to visit average people stores in the places I travel to, my favorite being local grocery chains to see how the people are eating. The difference is dramatic.

It depends on the person, if you are a super-super simple person (like you maybe own some clothes and a laptop or cellphone and eat out every night) who doesn't ever need to own much I think Arg could be for you.

As Americans go, I believe I'm a simple person. I live a "simple" life compared to many people I see in the states, I have a low cost of living and maintain a small house and a couple older vehicles. I even live in a remote part of Texas where Amazon prime takes a week to get to. Even at this level, I still find it super frustrating to live in AR as things are just not available here and if you do find what you're looking for it will last about a month before it breaks due to substandard quality. The average american would't last very long here at all.

Just my observations.

 

[Steve K]

on the topic of healthcare, ... my coworker had to go himself to the hospital room or wherever they were storing his now removed appendix, pick up HIS OWN APPENDIX in a box, and drive it to another clinic to do these screenings. the guy drove his own organ.

While this is inconvenient, it is not entirely a bad thing. If you want something done correctly, it is often best to do it yourself!

 

[Steve K]

I even live in a remote part of Texas where Amazon prime takes a week to get to.

FYI JB, it now takes a week to get Amazon prime stuff almost anywhere (outside of major cities in states where there is a distribution center). Thanks to Covid-19.

Even at this level, I still find it super frustrating to live in AR as things are just not available here and if you do find what you're looking for it will last about a month before it breaks due to substandard quality. The average american would't last very long here at all.

I would definitely agree. An average US citizen with a typical consumer/convenience-based mindset will go crazy. If you take such things as a puzzle to be solved, a challenge to be overcome, etc., it becomes a game which can be won with some challenge, once you understand the rules of engagement. Figuring out what/where/when to buy each type of thing takes research, time, trial-and-error, etc.

I can still remember the joy I experienced after getting two working cell phone sim cards with Movistar in Buenos Aires after about a week of marching to various places, feeding pesos into various machines, and several hours on the phone both talking and texting to Movistar (along with a local friend interpreting). Topping off in Mendoza was still confusing and a hassle every month, but it added to the sense of accomplishment. And after mastering the skill, it became only a minor nuisance, easily combined with some other routine errands. If such things make you feel angry instead of successful, Argentina is not for you. I never would have predicted this, but it made me felt great, like I had kicked Movistar's ass in some epic battle.

I'd say Argentina life is sort of the Harley-Davidson of countries. Harley-Davidsons are Gorgeous, noisy, often obnoxious, notoriously unreliable, frequently uncomfortable, poorly handling, and slow. They are also chock full of Passion, history, nostalgia, character, imagery, imagination, and tradition. People love them, not just despite their shortcomings, but actually because of them. In my life I have owned 1 Yamaha and 7 Hondas and zero Harleys. The uber-reliable, super-fast, comfortable, high-tech Honda I have now in the USA is for sale - looking to get a Triumph Bonneville as a replacement, for most of the reasons people get Harleys.

 

[on the brink]

Trying to live in Argentina with US conveniences and quality stuff is an exercise in frustration. Spent quite a few years feeling frustrated, but am finally learning to live with locally available things only, like most Argentines do. After a while, it does not hurt.

 

[Iznogud]

Funny coincidence, i currentmy have an incoming mail from a Steve K. When i read the replies a bell started ringing in my head.

----

Born and raised in this chaos, it took me at least 5 years to go native in structured Europe. Once back to Argentina it was frustrating to live with the insanity and stupidity of some of our ways.
Somewhat felt like those amerindians Columbus brought to the Old World.

Been a lifetime already but the structured world left its imprint and things that shouldn't bother me still do.

It's up to each one to decide whether they like it here and the pros outweight the cons or not. Only time can tell.

Iz