Villa Soldati - Are you watching?

[syngirl]

So I'm curious if anyone has been watching what's going on in Villa Soldati and what they think of the situation. Here's a summary (this is from my memory of the past few days of news, feel free to refute any points if story has changed):

- Two days ago residents of the neighbouring Villa (Villa 20 I believe) entered the Parque Indoamerica, the second largest park space in Capital, with the intention of dividing the park up into lots that will then be lotteried off to residents of the Villa.

- That same afternoon the Policia Federal & Metropolitana, in I believe their first joint operation, entered the park with the intention of peacefully dispersing the people. At first, the desalojo occurred without any violence, but as afternoon turned into evening and the police pushed people further into the Villa, violent incidents began to occur:

- numerous fires were set -- cars mostly in the villa
- stones/bricks thrown at police
- police moved in with rubber bullets and the water gun that shoots blue dye so that offenders can later be identified
- news cameras caught images of police brutality, federal police using unnecessary force on the people of the Villa
- most channels had their live feeds abruptly cut off at some point when their camera men decided it was too much and got themselves out of there.


- By late that night and into weds morning it was being reported by the villeros that there had been 3 deaths -- later it was confirmed that one of the deaths occurred at 1930, well before the violent incidences.

- the 2 remaining deaths were a 28 year old woman and a 2 year old girl who died of bullet wounds
- the residents of the Villa are claiming that these two were shot by police, one woman claims she saw the police officer shoot them directly, however she also claims she saw the man die, something that was later refuted.

- the Police are claiming that the autopsies show the bullet wounds came from "tumberas" -- home made weapons, fashioned out of pipes or bicycle parts, that can shoot 8mm bullets but the fragmentation pattern when it enters the body is very different then when shot from a normal gun

- because of these deaths many from the Villa were claiming that the city should now give them the land in recompense for their losses.

- however, while there are a certain number of people claiming lotes in the park that are truly destitute -- ie multiple children, no jobs, no food, no money -- there are claims that the entire operation is being run by Narcos who want to take over the park because it will allow them to unite Villa 20 with the one across the park -- a Villa whose name I cannot remember, it is Villa 1.114 or something like that

- if the Narcos are able to unite these two villas with the new one that will be constructed in Parque Indoamericana they will create a space that will become the largest Villa in South America, a space that the Police will probably not have the balls to enter

- as of this morning the Juez Gallardo has ordered that no further police action take place in the park, that there will be no more desalojos for the time being and that the occupants of the predio need to receive food water and shelter.

- as I write this, lots are being divided out in the park where residents will erect their new permanent homes


So -- what do people think? We are witnessing the birth of a new villa on the news in large form -- yes smaller villas and temporary shelters pop up around the city fairly frequently, but in my time here this is the first time I've seen such an organised overtaking of a huge public park.

What do you think the police should be doing? IS this a plan by the Narcos -- on the news the man that was runing the whole operation was certain to make sure his face was never seen by the cameras. Or is it merely desperate people trying to take control of their lives? Or are Narcos preying on their vulnerability and using the people as a means to grow their territory and power?

If the city allows this to go through, what are the repercussions down the road? If you think that the actions of these people are justified, would your opinion be changed if it was the Bosques de Palermo?

Clearly there is a lack of legal, government sanctioned housing for the poor -- but just because the government can't get their act together in that respect, should they just wash their hands of the issue and let people take over public spaces and consider that the solution?

It's a very touchy subject, but I'm curious to hear other people's solutions and opinions.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

- the Police are claiming that the autopsies show the bullet wounds came from "tumberas" -- home made weapons, fashioned out of pipes or bicycle parts, that can shoot 8mm bullets but the fragmentation pattern when it enters the body is very different then when shot from a normal gun

Police always use this lie. When the 2001 crisis happens there were 3 people killed in Av. de Mayo and another 11 wounded by fire arms. I was working in the prosecuting team, so this is first hand info.
All of them where shot by a police man with a 11/70. No tumberas, no pen gun (they also use this ridiculous theory, 007 was attacking again).
So, if police were shooting people and people die, guess what, police killed them.
Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

What do you think the police should be doing? IS this a plan by the Narcos -- on the news the man that was runing the whole operation was certain to make sure his face was never seen by the cameras. Or is it merely desperate people trying to take control of their lives? Or are Narcos preying on their vulnerability and using the people as a means to grow their territory and power?

If he shows his face, police will kill him backstage.

So -- what do people think? We are witnessing the birth of a new villa on the news in large form -- yes smaller villas and temporary shelters pop up around the city fairly frequently, but in my time here this is the first time I've seen such an organised overtaking of a huge public park.

They always do it in this way.

If the city allows this to go through, what are the repercussions down the road? If you think that the actions of these people are justified, would your opinion be changed if it was the Bosques de Palermo?

Do you know the area surrounding the Parque Iberoamericano? The whole area is abandoned, they should build houses instead of having this huge empty place and problem solved.

Clearly there is a lack of legal, government sanctioned housing for the poor -- but just because the government can't get their act together in that respect, should they just wash their hands of the issue and let people take over public spaces and consider that the solution?

There are a lot of houses for the poor people, but this is never enough.

It's a very touchy subject, but I'm curious to hear other people's solutions and opinions.

Regards

 

[syngirl]

Do you know the area surrounding the Parque Iberoamericano? The whole are is abandoned, they should build houses instead of having this huge empty place and problem solved.

Yes they SHOULD build houses, but they don't -- the government seems to figure that these people will sort themselves out anyway, so why do anything?

I've been out to the area a few times -- it's near the old Club Espanol isn't it? -- my father-in-law was living in Lanus at one point, so we drove through the area a few times. Yes it is mostly abandoned, but I don't think that means that anyone should just be able to walk in and set up their home -- but I do believe that if the government cannot come up with other solutions then yes, use these types of parks to build basic housing WITH water and services.

Question -- in the constitucion does it says something about guaranteeing the right to a vivienda? I believe it does, but I'm not sure exactly what this means -- ie does it mean that if you don't have a vivivenda you can just go into a public space and take it?

The people that are moving into this park that are truly desperate (not those that are just manipulating power etc) -- say that they cannot afford anything, hence they obviously have no intention nor means to move into a legally sanctioned place. So something does have to be done, but I think if Macri and all these politicians actually want to advance this city, they need to build housing for the poor in an organised way, with services etc.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Question -- in the constitucion does it says something about guaranteeing the right to a vivienda? I believe it does, but I'm not sure exactly what this means -- ie does it mean that if you don't have a vivivenda you can just go into a public space and take it?

Art. 14 bis.- El trabajo en sus diversas formas gozará de la protección de las leyes, las que asegurarán al trabajador: condiciones dignas y equitativas de labor; jornada limitada; descanso y vacaciones pagados; retribución justa; salario mínimo vital móvil; igual remuneración por igual tarea; participación en las ganancias de las empresas, con control de la producción y colaboración en la dirección; protección contra el despido arbitrario; estabilidad del empleado público; organización sindical libre y democrática, reconocida por la simple inscripción en un registro especial.
Queda garantizado a los gremios: concertar convenios colectivos de trabajo; recurrir a la conciliación y al arbitraje; el derecho de huelga. Los representantes gremiales gozarán de las garantías necesarias para el cumplimiento de su gestión sindical y las relacionadas con la estabilidad de su empleo.
El Estado otorgará los beneficios de la seguridad social, que tendrá carácter de integral e irrenunciable. En especial, la ley establecerá: el seguro social obligatorio, que estará a cargo de entidades nacionales o provinciales con autonomía financiera y económica, administradas por los interesados con participación del Estado, sin que pueda existir superposición de aportes; jubilaciones y pensiones móviles; la protección integral de la familia; la defensa del bien de familia; la compensación económica familiar y el acceso a una vivienda digna.

Well, if the owner accepts you into his land, nobody else can evict you out.
That´s why they do it in a very organized way, to push politically, nobody want to pay the political cost of the eviction.

In this link:
http://www.cels.org.ar/agendatematica/?info=documentosTpl&ids=13&lang=es&ss=85
Read this:
21/09/2008
Una experiencia de exigibilidad jurídica y política del derecho a la vivienda: el caso de los vecinos de villa La Dulce

CELS is working in the enforceability of the right to adequate housing claiming it at Court

Regards.

 

[emilyr]

Hey syngirl! I know you!


Yes, I am watching! I am glad you made this post. This incident has really gotten to me, too. This is definitely one of the most important things to happen in Capital Federal in 2010 – I dare to say more important than the passing of Nestor and Sandro - because it really brings to the forefront many tensions in Argentine society. I used to be jump to the defense to any act of the poor, especially from far away in America where it is easy to criticize local citizens of a country. Now that I live here, and I know lots of Argentines AND immigrants; I know a lot of people who work long hours just to be able to rent a place, not even have their own property. So I completely understand the people in the neighborhood and the whole city enraged to see their public green space taken over.


I have a lot of “lefty” beliefs, like wealth redistribution but these must be done through democratic institutions, even if the corruption cost is high. These people cannot stay on those lots; there is a higher cost of the breaking down the basic property rights in a society. Argentine democratic institutions already suffered enough from their neoliberal dismantling during the 90s. I am totally in agreement with the desalojo, and I think it is good that the Ministerio de Desarrollo is taking responsibility to bring them basic necessities and to negotiate with them in a civil way. It is better to negotiate with them than to shoot at them and create a war against their own citizens. This is not how you build a society, a city, though, taking over primer real estate in Capital Federal, close to a major road. And the deaths are really tragic, but can anyone explain HOW to desalojar thousands of people who land en masse on a piece of land ARMED with rocks and makeshift arms determined to fight in human combat at any cost, who use their own children as shields??


I don´t believe that the narcos are in control of this, though this was obviously a super organized act. There is a long history in Latin American cities during the 50s and 60s with the urban boom of this kind of taking land. Neighborhoods that look normal now outside Lima were taken in the same way. The mom of a friend told me the story in Lima of when she defended the land she helped take over using ancient Incan weapons, that is now a regular barrio outside Lima that looks completely normal.
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]I agree there should be more housing for poor people, but I just have a hard time feeling sorry for these people. Among the folks there, there are some folks who have their own house. (http://www.clarin.com/ciudades/mayoria-extranjeros-movida-organizada_0_386961385.html El “se aprovechan” abarca también a los que venden el terreno (o el derecho a ocuparlo). Las respuestas son vagas, pero “alguien” pide entre $ 600 y $ 800 incluso antes de identificar el lote.) There are so many folks in the city who also have needs and children, who work hard and live in conventillos and difficult situations, but everyone cannot take over parks and public spaces. There are many many ILLEGAL places, conventillos, casa tomadas, vilas, throughout all of Capital Federal. These are not ideal, but the makeshift places they would construct there would not be ideal either. Right now, the way the law is the people can take over buildings and cannot be removed usually for three years. There is a whole industry of fake rental contracts, and the owners of old buildings that want to fix them up to live in them either have to pay the police or wait three years to remove people. This happened to an Argentine friend of ours who bought a very old fixer-upper for his family, and while waiting for approval to start construction....a LONG tranmite, in came three families with their children and mattresses. But taking over already constructed houses does not bother me as much - because certainly there are buildings not in use - as people taking over parks, the patrimonio of everyone.

 

[pauper]

In such a complicated situation with so little known of the identity and motives of the principal protagonists and now third parties trying to run with the story to make politics I would caution against jumping to conclusions too early (especially regarding the identities and circumstances of those occupying the park who I believe were mostly very poor desperate people exploited by others).

The night before the occupation there were rumours about housing projects being taken with force before being delivered to their rightful owners, one project of the Madres built for inhabitants of los Piletones was attacked, threats were made and shots were fired according to Sergio Schoklender from the Madres who used the word narcos to describe the protagonists and pleaded for police intervention.

When a news crew went to Soldati to investigate early the following morning, already the park was subdivided into measured lots with tape and about 50 families had installed themselves on various lots - most of these families were previously living under various arrangements in Villa 20.

Who fired the bullets that killed two people during the attempts by the police to clear the park is still unclear, the fact that the bullets were of a different calibre than those officially used by the police certainly doesn't automatically clear them of suspicion.

The following day many more people arrived to the park, I saw many interviewed on TV who seemed quite oblivious to the controversy and gave what I thought were honest replies about their families and circumstances. Almost all of them were renting in Villa 20 and moved to the park to have a place of their own. People reported paying 500 -3000 pesos for lots in the park. Later in the afternoon reports started arriving of new arrivals taking lots occupied by other people through force or threats (some were armed).

Macri gave a press conference at midday and brought the issue of immigration up in quite a reckless way - later in the afternoon neighbours from monoblocos facing the park in Parque Avellaneda heard rumours/threats that their homes were going to be taken by force. They emerged to defend their homes and their was a confrontation with some people occupying the park. Rocks were thrown and shots were fired. Later, locals emerged pleading for a police presence, their were many people draped in Argentine flags and numerous rants against Bolivians/Paraguayans were cut off by news channels.

Several hours later the Metropolitana and the PF re-established a small presence several hundred metres away from where the last confrontations had occurred.

In addition three or four other smaller scale occupations were reported over the same period in the same comuna.

Interestingly:

There is currently an election campaign within villa 20 to elect a new representative.

Also only one or two days before the trouble Macri publicly stated that we need to do in the villas of BA what Lula was doing in the favelas of Rio.

At least one of the armed men seen on camera was identified as a barra brava from Huracan and not a resident of the area.

There have been numerous other incidents and statements during and leading up to these problems that may or may not be connected, but when you have punteros, barras bravas, narcos, xenophobia and political posturing in the mix you can safely conclude that it's going to take a long time for the truth to come out (if ever).

 

[pauper]

Another night where the security of this most neglected corner of the city is being left to narcos and barras bravas, if we want to arrive as quickly as possible to Rio style favelas, this is surely the most direct route, a complete absence of the state.

I can't believe what I'm seeing.

 

[syngirl]

Neither can I Pauper -- but I also think I'm more depressed to see how little interest has been paid to this thread by the board -- I'm sure it would be a very different story were it the Bosques de Palermo being taken over at the moment.

I think at 8pm this evening there was supposed to have been another address about the situation by the government, but I've been working and forgot to turn on the news, so will just have to catch up on latest developments later.

 

[Napoleon]

I personally think that the government cannot let people just take parks. Period.

That's all I'm going to say about that.