Villa Soldati - Are you watching?

[mini]

I'm sorry, but there were others calling people street rats and I got carried away. I do understand the nationalistic feeling - I don't agree with the violence or hatred and I think the government is falling asleep at the wheel. CFK gets on the air and gives a speech about how beautiful everyone is and then what?

Here are the photos from tonight: http://www.flickr.com/photos/katesedgwick/sets/72157625573208994/

Edit: Looking over my comment, I don't think I was that rude. That was total false equivalency I was reacting to among other things. I think very often that privileged people fail to realize how rash they are in their judgements of others and more sympathy is warranted. I wonder what any of the people posting on here would do if they felt their homes and lives were possibly in danger. So while you may disagree with my tone and perhaps the way I chose to end my comment, I stand by my assertions, and I think anyone posting on here is miles ahead in terms of advantages than 99% of the people in this neighborhood and should recognize that fact.

Other people calling street rats? I didn't read that.

As I said you had valid points but when people start to write stuff like "you have your head up your ass" and "you people make me puke".... I don't know. Doesn't make me want to read your post so much or to post myself as I don't feel I'd like to be told those things.

From what I read there was plenty of sympathy on this thread. We may not be living in the middle of it and frankly I don't think anyone should feel guilty, apologize for or even need to "recognize" it publicly every time we discuss social issues. We are very well aware that we don't live there.

But that doesn't mean we don't have the capacity to discuss, understand, sympathize, analyze, opine, etc. Don't know why you need to puke. Your opinion is not the be all end all.

I can certainly see both sides and as I said above I'm not exactly sure what to think. Well beside the fact that there are some very serious issues at play here. Which ever side you fall on the whole thing is pretty shocking.

Anyway, as for CFK I would hope she would say something other than "how beautiful everyone is". Wishful thinking maybe. What do I know.

 

[sesamosinsal]

Sure, I, and others on the forum, have had different opportunities then those in the villas. The choices I made have allowed me to live in Palermo Soho. But, there was a time when I struggled to find money for a bus. The difference is that when I had nothing, I WORKED harder and longer...I didn't steal (people or places), cry, or murder.

Hardwork is good, but it is only a part of climbing the social ladder. The vast majority of these people who were forced out of their homes or out of that park are poor foreigners from Bolivia, Paraguay, Peru, etc.

Tonight on one of the news channels they were talking about people being attacked for "looking a certain way." In other words, if you "looked" Bolivian, Paraguayan, or Peruvian (whatever that means), you were likely to be attacked.

Sometimes it's not just about choices. Sometimes it is something you're born with. Some of these people are darker-skinned, don't speak Argentine Spanish, and don't have the proper documents to live here. Thus, they are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

It was heartbreaking to watch women on TV tonight looking for their husbands, carrying their babies in their arms with no place to go, etc. etc. One woman showed the cédula of her husband on TV in a desperate attempt to find him...

Fernández touched on this tonight in her speech, but it needs to be reiterated that we're talking about humans here. These are people, for Christ's sake. This country -- and this world, for that matter -- will never progress if we remain divided.

But then again, I must not know what I'm talking about.

 

[K_Crimini]

Hey, I live here and I'm upset. So don't read what I have to say if you don't want to, mini. You certainly applied more scrutiny to the things I wrote than that of the others here.

This is a disaster. I was looking out the windows at fires in the street and knowing there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. And there are plenty of people judging, but there's damn little in terms of ideas or solutions. There are hundreds of thousands in a mile radius of here living in villas and poverty. There are many many more who just want a nice life and a safe place to live, surely in and out of the villas.

And I did not excuse murder, violence or hatred, jaredwb. Your views seem really despicable to me and whether you acknowledge it or not, you clearly have many more advantages than the majority of people here and probably always have had. The majority of the people here aren't engaging in that sort of behavior and people need to keep that in mind. There are plenty of people here that are caught in the crossfire that are not bad people - on both "sides."

Sorry, bradleyhale, that I jumped on your comment, but I still think there are miles of difference between being stuck on the highway and having full scale riots on your street.

 

[mini]

Hey, I live here and I'm upset. So don't read what I have to say if you don't want to, mini. You certainly applied more scrutiny to the things I wrote than that of the others here.

I didn't apply more scrutiny to what you said that I did others. I commented on the fact that you don't need to insult people to make your point. You said "you people in palermo" (and so by definition me) make you puke. Then you replied to me. Then I replied to you. It's a dialog.

And Jared has long been in my ignore list. I have no idea what his said. I'm sure he's a lovely person in real life. But on here, I don't want to read his type emotionally charged posts.

 

[mini]

Fernández touched on this tonight in her speech, but it needs to be reiterated that we're talking about humans here. These are people, for Christ's sake.

Did she speak tonight? I didn't see it. I'll check it out tomorrow.

 

[jaredwb]

Hey, I live here and I'm upset. So don't read what I have to say if you don't want to, mini. You certainly applied more scrutiny to the things I wrote than that of the others here.

This is a disaster. I was looking out the windows at fires in the street and knowing there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. And there are plenty of people judging, but there's damn little in terms of ideas or solutions. There are hundreds of thousands in a mile radius of here living in villas and poverty. There are many many more who just want a nice life and a safe place to live, surely in and out of the villas.

And I did not excuse murder, violence or hatred, jaredwb. Your views seem really despicable to me and whether you acknowledge it or not, you clearly have many more advantages than the majority of people here and probably always have had. The majority of the people here aren't engaging in that sort of behavior and people need to keep that in mind. There are plenty of people here that are caught in the crossfire that are not bad people - on both "sides."

Sorry, bradleyhale, that I jumped on your comment, but I still think there are miles of difference between being stuck on the highway and having full scale riots on your street.

As I said in my first post, you, and others like you are in the minority there and have a clear picture of reality and know the difference between right and wrong (on both sides). I stand behind you 100%.

My comments are directed only at the squatters and the "neighbors" attacking them. And we can't forget to give mad props to the government...impotent much?

And my views have nothing to do with Nationality (as mentioned in another post). The discrimination being displayed is both astonishing and disgusting, period.

 

[pauper]

Did she speak tonight? I didn't see it. I'll check it out tomorrow.

Yes, she was on cadena nacional, it was an already scheduled speech for human rights day, within minutes of all news stations crossing to the speech the attacks on those inhabiting the park commenced, this seems to have been highly orchestrated, the name Duhalde will no doubt be spoken of over the next few days.

 

[jaredwb]

I didn't apply more scrutiny to what you said that I did others. I commented on the fact that you don't need to insult people to make your point. You said "you people in palermo" (and so by definition me) make you puke. Then you replied to me. Then I replied to you. It's a dialog.

And Jared has long been in my ignore list. I have no idea what his said. I'm sure he's a lovely person in real life. But on here, I don't want to read his type emotionally charged posts.

Ignore list? I made a list? sorry you aren't able to handle a different point of view. God knows I sure have to.

 

[K_Crimini]

This is the last time I'm going to address this. I said that those who were navel gazing from a safe and privileged distance made me want to puke. Since you had yet to contribute to this discussion, you can safely assume that did not mean you, mini. I believe I have explained my previous remarks as much as I'm going to. I'm sure I won't be critiquing your personal mode of expression or personality in the way you have been so comfortable doing mine, though I'm sure there is plenty I could say if I wanted to. Now please drop it.

 

[sesamosinsal]

Hey, I live here and I'm upset. So don't read what I have to say if you don't want to, mini. You certainly applied more scrutiny to the things I wrote than that of the others here.

This is a disaster. I was looking out the windows at fires in the street and knowing there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. And there are plenty of people judging, but there's damn little in terms of ideas or solutions. There are hundreds of thousands in a mile radius of here living in villas and poverty. There are many many more who just want a nice life and a safe place to live, surely in and out of the villas.

And I did not excuse murder, violence or hatred, jaredwb. Your views seem really despicable to me and whether you acknowledge it or not, you clearly have many more advantages than the majority of people here and probably always have had. The majority of the people here aren't engaging in that sort of behavior and people need to keep that in mind. There are plenty of people here that are caught in the crossfire that are not bad people - on both "sides."

Sorry, bradleyhale, that I jumped on your comment, but I still think there are miles of difference between being stuck on the highway and having full scale riots on your street.

You're missing the point. Whatever reason your protest is, blocking highways and making someone else's life hell should not be the solution. If four people get pissed off at work, they go buy some nafta and get a few used tires and burn them in the streets. People can't get to work, ambulances can't get to people who are need of urgent medical care, and businesses can't get the items they need to stay operating. As I said, I understand the seriousness of this issue, but blocking highways to make a point is careless and only ends up hurting other citizens and creating massive instability.

The solution to this problem is indeed complex because it isn't just about giving people homes or land to live on. The name for the problem is xenophobia, but remedying the problem is going to take a lot of work. The politicians in this country should stop urging people to rally 'round the flag, and start urging people to look at the benefits of a region that fights for the success and wellbeing of all and not just a few.

As I've said on this forum before, nationalism is one of the last accepted of forms of discrimination. Argentina, in my opinion, is one of the leading countries in pushing for a more equal society. As examples, in Argentina women can become president, and GLTBQ individuals can get married or have their DNI reflect their gender. But Argentina (and not just Argentina, but every other country in the world) discriminates against those who are from other countries (e.g., charging people entry fees just because they are from certain countries). How is discriminating against someone being born in Bolivia any different from being born gay? a woman? or with darker skin?