Warning About Tango Teacher "tango Piola"

[garryl]

Perhaps it is common on the dance floor, but he is a teacher. I was there to learn, not to be groped. Also, I posted about it in other hubs and found five other women that made uncomfortable...foreign and nonforeign alike. He is using his platform as a teacher to put his hands on women.

Sorry to hear this and you have such an experience. What a jerk ! It seems that they might need a much louder signal, maybe a kick in the crotch with that sharp pointy Tango shoes.

 

[mmoon]

Perhaps it is common on the dance floor, but he is a teacher. I was there to learn, not to be groped. Also, I posted about it in other hubs and found five other women that made uncomfortable...foreign and nonforeign alike. He is using his platform as a teacher to put his hands on women.

No need to defend your actions. Clearly, the guy is a scum who is taking advantage of the situation to try and get away with his creepy and illegal advances.
Thanks for sharing your experience so we can be aware of him and spread the word.

 

[sylvie]

First, i think the price sounds right. If you are a man, the price is much higher because he needs to hire another female teacher/dancer to dance with you. His price is not credibly cheap. Secondly, what he did is pretty common on Tango floor in Argentina. Many dancers " fall in love" with their partners during one song, the dance is very intimate. I am not saying what he did is right. But I think there is a culture difference here.

I live here and have been studying and dancing tango for 10 years. First, US$13 is incredibly cheap. And second, all of my male teachers have taught men themselves, without using a female surrogate. That is a pretty old-school way of thinking, and applies more to male teachers who can't follow well. But these days teachers should be skilled in dancing both roles.

As for the milongas... Yes, there are predator types who go... mostly to the more touristed places like Canning. These men are affectionately known as bottom-feeders, because they fit all the "old-milonguero" stereotypes in the eyes of beginner, tourist dancers, and the women are flattered to be invited to dance. These guys are avoided by the milonga regulars. The kind of overt behavior they show on the dance floor is not cool by anyone's standards. This is not "a cultural difference"!! (By the way, if you refuse to dance with men who walk over to you and hold out their hand as an invitation -- or command -- then you will largely avoid the bottom feeders.)

Tango is a very intimate, sensual dance, but women are very good at feeling the difference between sensual and overtly sexual. No one should be running his hand over your breast nor touching his lips against yours! That is NOT something that happens at milongas or private lessons. I've never had a teacher who wasn't 100 percent professional. I've never known anyone who had a teacher who wasn't 100 percent professional. You can't judge teachers by this one.

You will hear a lot of comments like the ones from Bajo_Cero, that women don't need private lessons. What he said will be very confusing to a beginner, because he's agreeing that you should take technique classes. If you take private lessons from a good instructor, they will be all about technique, posture, body awareness, connection.

The idea that women can learn simply from dancing at milongas is an old one. If your goal is simply to be able to follow, with no sense of your own axis or developing your own personality as a dancer, that is true. You can see dozens of women on the dance floor who have been dancing for decades, still hanging their weight on their partners, not progressing in their dance. That's not to say there aren't good dancers who have learned that way, but they are few and far between. At your age, you want to be able to go to the young milongas, where the level of dance is usually higher. You won't get invited to dance if you don't have good technique. And you won't develop that without private lessons. Only a man who hasn't tried to really learn how to follow would think that it's easy.

 

[PolarVortex]

I live here and have been studying and dancing tango for 10 years. First, US$13 is incredibly cheap. And second, all of my male teachers have taught men themselves, without using a female surrogate. That is a pretty old-school way of thinking, and applies more to male teachers who can't follow well. But these days teachers should be skilled in dancing both roles.

As for the milongas... Yes, there are predator types who go... mostly to the more touristed places like Canning. These men are affectionately known as bottom-feeders, because they fit all the "old-milonguero" stereotypes in the eyes of beginner, tourist dancers, and the women are flattered to be invited to dance. These guys are avoided by the milonga regulars. The kind of overt behavior they show on the dance floor is not cool by anyone's standards. This is not "a cultural difference"!! (By the way, if you refuse to dance with men who walk over to you and hold out their hand as an invitation -- or command -- then you will largely avoid the bottom feeders.)

Tango is a very intimate, sensual dance, but women are very good at feeling the difference between sensual and overtly sexual. No one should be running his hand over your breast nor touching his lips against yours! That is NOT something that happens at milongas or private lessons. I've never had a teacher who wasn't 100 percent professional. I've never known anyone who had a teacher who wasn't 100 percent professional. You can't judge teachers by this one.

You will hear a lot of comments like the ones from Bajo_Cero, that women don't need private lessons. What he said will be very confusing to a beginner, because he's agreeing that you should take technique classes. If you take private lessons from a good instructor, they will be all about technique, posture, body awareness, connection.

The idea that women can learn simply from dancing at milongas is an old one. If your goal is simply to be able to follow, with no sense of your own axis or developing your own personality as a dancer, that is true. You can see dozens of women on the dance floor who have been dancing for decades, still hanging their weight on their partners, not progressing in their dance. That's not to say there aren't good dancers who have learned that way, but they are few and far between. At your age, you want to be able to go to the young milongas, where the level of dance is usually higher. You won't get invited to dance if you don't have good technique. And you won't develop that without private lessons. Only a man who hasn't tried to really learn how to follow would think that it's easy.

*applause*

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Silvie, PV, there are many group clases where women just do technique. This is the best wat to learn to have your own axis because you have no one to use as a walking stick.

i like the class at Subderland because you just walk over and over, women doing 8s.

Mariposita also has technique clases, Dragone too (even I do not like her dancing).

For begginer's group clases el Beso is good We/ fri/sun after 8.

Private clases are not needed for a begginer, it is useful if you are advance BUT then, it is more difficult to find someone you admire.

It makes sense only if you came for a week, then private clases are the best options. But living here, to do some research is the best option. There are several great teachers.

Once she has some basic skills, she needs miles of dancing. The miles of dancefloor is the difference of level between those who dance here and abroad.

Even it is true that there is some people who sucks even they were dancing for long time, this is the lack of skill, nothing else. Dancing is not for everybody.

 

[Rich One]

This is a great thread full of erotic undertones

Locking a female thigh around the male waist and clinging your mid portion against his is a beginners or advanced move? B)
Like what Mora Godoy practiced on Obama?? Should it be considered a sexual overture??

Or as Dr. Bajo stated "[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)] [/background][background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]there is some people who sucks even they were dancing..." [/background]

 

[sylvie]

Silvie, PV, there are many group clases where women just do technique. This is the best wat to learn to have your own axis because you have no one to use as a walking stick.

i like the class at Subderland because you just walk over and over, women doing 8s.

Mariposita also has technique clases, Dragone too (even I do not like her dancing).

For begginer's group clases el Beso is good We/ fri/sun after 8.

Private clases are not needed for a begginer, it is useful if you are advance BUT then, it is more difficult to find someone you admire.

It makes sense only if you came for a week, then private clases are the best options. But living here, to do some research is the best option. There are several great teachers.

Once she has some basic skills, she needs miles of dancing. The miles of dancefloor is the difference of level between those who dance here and abroad.

Even it is true that there is some people who sucks even they were dancing for long time, this is the lack of skill, nothing else. Dancing is not for everybody.

I'm not interested in debating you about being a follower. Are you a follower?

I completely disagree about privates being wasted on a beginner. Most people (myself included) start with group classes, pick up a bunch of bad habits, and then reinforce those habits through repetition at milongas. It takes us 5 times longer to undo all those bad habits.

<<The miles of dancefloor is the difference of level between those who dance here and abroad.>>

It's clear you don't know much about milongas abroad. In cities like New York and Montreal, there are several milongas every night of the week. People can and do dance just as much as they do in Buenos Aires. They get LOTS of practice. The reason they don't dance as well is because of the quality of the teachers in Buenos Aires. No question.

I have taken technique classes with all the people you mention. Yes, Carlos and Rosa are wonderful, legendary. But there are a LOT of women doing the walking exercises with Rosa and, consequently, there is very little correction. You can see many people doing things wrong, who never realize. That is even truer at Mariposita (I don't like the technique class there at all). Few corrections, lots of bad posture.

I don't want to argue. Only a teacher who is dancing with me one-on-one can feel the subtle postural adjustments. I know this from lots and lots of personal experience. As a follower.

And finally, tango is not a dance that requres lots of "skill." You don't have to be a natural dancer. The only pre-requisite is that you can hear and feel the music. That is critical. Everything else can be learned... if you have good teachers.

 

[sylvie]

p.s. I don't want to sound like I'm against group technique classes. They are great. But you have to be advanced before you are ready for them. Otherwise, women focus on looking beautiful. They just copy the "look" and don't understand how to keep the connection with their partner.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I'm not interested in debating you about being a follower. Are you a follower?

Well, I' m a man and straight so, I cannot be a follower.

I
completely disagree about privates being wasted on a beginner. Most
people (myself included) start with group classes, pick up a bunch of
bad habits, and then reinforce those habits through repetition at
milongas. It takes us 5 times longer to undo all those bad habits.

It is a huge waste if money, unless, of course, you or your partner teach. Please clarity it. No offense.

There are good and bad group clases in BA. I was recommending the best.

I guess you refer to clases and milongas abroad. They are full of bad habits. We agree here.

The miles of dancefloor is the difference of level between those who dance here and abroad.>>

It's
clear you don't know much about milongas abroad. In cities like New
York and Montreal, there are several milongas every night of the week.
People can and do dance just as much as they do in Buenos Aires. They
get LOTS of practice. The reason they don't dance as well is because of
the quality of the teachers in Buenos Aires. No question.

Well, I m going to do an effort to justify my previous opinion.

When I started to dance some years ago, the 5 first years I danced every
single night before the car crash that left me on a wheel chair for a
year, I used to dance a lot of tandas per night.

i used to start at a practica like La Glorieta or the class/ practica at Subderland or Bohemios de La Boca about 8 Pm and finish at 4 am or 6 at weekends.

So, it means that I was going to 3 milongas per night.

Even today to go out means to go to 2 milongas.

You have a great milongas and dancers in Seoul and Barcelona. Barcelona is terrific.

It is also very good in Rome. It is good all around Italy but I danced only in Rome.

The famous Sitches Festival is like a bad Sunday night at La Viruta.

London is Ok. There are a few great female dancers I know from el Beso.

Rio is very bad, Santiago de Chile, well, all the good dancer are here.

Washington was good, I was at the lounge. Good music, good dancing. It was Ok.

In general i prefer to do not dance abroad because there are better things to do there. For tango dancing, the best place is here.

However, NYC is a total different story. There are outstanding female dancers from NYC but many of them prefer to do not dance there.

The big problem with Milongas in NYC is the lack of connection, they don't
listen to the music and instead do aerobics and they do not know how to
dance social (with a lot of other couples on the dance floor) but they
think thay are great.

Women are like a flag waving in the wind, that good is the embrace.

Lafayette used to have AR teacher who danced like Valentino...no comments.

There is a group of argentines who teach tango whom learnt there. No comments again.

There was a big tango studio I can't remember the name. The main couple there
were from colombia and they were working just for the green card.

The practize there was awkfull. Of course, forget about having your chair,
besides that, I recognize there a russian girld who one year before
spent 6 month in BA learning to dance from zero. She was one of the
teachers. There were a few good female dancer who dance only with her
partners. Boring. ZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZz

So, yes, they were dancing a lot because they dance all the tandas non stop the whole night, crashing each other, speeding up without listening to the music,
dancing in any direction, i agree with you about all the bad habits.

The difference between there and here is, perhaps, not only quality buy also that you dance with a lot of different people.

The former triangle was better. One of the girls of that group was here for
over a year and she was great. The "leader" of that group can be read
while he dance. You say, now he is copying Oskar Casas, then he
continues copying his son, Osky Casas. ZZZzzzzzZZzZzZzZzzzzz

The best night is at La Nacional but there are just a few girls I would like to dance with. The DJ used to play a lot of Troilo and there were some girls I knew from here.

The Ucranian souposed to be great but is full and they are
clueless about how to dance in close space, so, they crash you too much.
I do not enjoy that.

So, well, here we disagree.

I practize japanese fencing. I would never compare a dojo of any other
part of the world with one in Japan. The same is with tango.

There are a few places that can be compared with BA, NYC is not one of them. Barcelona and Seoul are.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I have taken technique classes with all the people you mention. Yes, Carlos and Rosa are wonderful, legendary. But there are a LOT of women doing the walking exercises with Rosa and, consequently, there is very little correction. You can see many people doing things wrong, who never realize.

Well, you didn`t understand how does it works. No offense, you are a foreigner.

They ignore the newbies. They are not there for the money so they do not give a s…t.

If you continue going and they see that you try hard, you improve and you have some talent, one time she is going to correct you something. If you do not correct it right away, she is never going to correct you again. As soon as you add to your dancing her corrections, she is going to continue correcting you. Simple like that.

An this people really know what they are talking about.

To take private classes with them makes sense, but I do not think they are going to do it with a begginer. They are very generous with their knowledge but they do not waste their time neither.

The big deal in BA is to learn with people with decades of experience.

I forgot to mention the practica of Parejita but she said she was just learning.

I do not know if Bravo is still alive, but that guy invented many of the giros we know.