Welfare In Argentina

[Somewhereinba]

What is the current state of welfare in Argentina? There is a belief that the country hands out money to those lesser off who have children. Is this correct? What are the actual payments and allowances each month that a poor family is entitled to? How much of the budget is allocated to these payments?

 

[Montauk_Project]

There are various programs, the largest is "asignación universal por hijo" where you get a payment per child and in return the child must go to school, see a doctor, etc. This is not just for poor people, many workers also qualify if they earn under 8000 pesos per month (I think, the amounts change all the time). I think it is around 400-600 pesos per month per child. If the child is disabled it goes up to around 2000 pesos per month.
Then there is a program called progesar that gives young people between 18-24 years old about 600 pesos per month if their families are under an income level to continue their studies in high school, university, technical school, etc.
There are also other subsidies that people can apply for, based on disablity, certain life situations, etc. The above programs were invented so that getting money is not dependent on being in a political party, that is why it is called "universal". After it was implemented school enrollment rose.
I AM WRITING THIS FROM MEMORY, IF SOMEONE CAN UPDATE WITH EXACT NUMBERS THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/m1/1565048-el-gobierno-reparte-64400-millones-en-58-planes-sociales

18 millón people get 58 different plans.

 

[Matiasba]

this huge money invested in improoving the situation of the poor, these social plans (which money comes from not paying debt interests, from not having taken debt) will probably desappear with next government. With Macri for sure.

 

[Somewhereinba]

There are huge amounts of people shopping during the mornings and afternoons and was interested to know how they could afford it with prices so high. I know how expensive things are now for the majority of Argentines and wanted to see how the numbers stacked up. I am most likely very ignorant but my first thought was why aren't they at work? I guess there are not enough jobs or they lack the necessary skills to gain employment? Those that spend time in poorer areas can hopefully explain the situation and whether the welfare programs are working. Don't get me started on the mothers with baby's begging in the street for money, very difficult to see. Is the school system failing at educating the people? I sense a type of resentment from the middle and upper class towards the poor where they think they are basically paying for them to do nothing but have children and stay at home - is this accurate?

 

[Matiasba]

Argentine upper and middle classes historically had fear of this people, not talking of insecurity, but of political experiences. Our upper classes are very different than europeans and americans, they are open, they dont have clear borders, they are porous, theres always new arrivals... In Europe upper classes are much more defined, much more marked, you have nobility, and the upper classes have a history being that. Here in Argentina, whatever upper class family you choose, if you go back two or three generations, you have a history of migration, of poverty, of people expelled from thier countries. In the US, you have the racial thing as a distinction, that is a clear mark, a clear clousure the upper classes have, they will never accept black people as their equal.

So if you consider this and add a few political experiences of giving all the political power to the poor, making it almost equal to everyone, like the first (not the second, not the third) peronism, if you give them permissons and beneffits to the excluded, who have the same origin of the rich, who have the same history (just that ones were more lucky than others) it is understandable to have upper classes frightened. They are defending the (social) distances, they are trying to close the borders of the upper classes, they are afraid of again being at the same level. Now we can argue lots of things of peronismo, but one thing is above all, its the gini coeficient, is the equality level, fighting the rich, called "oligarquia" to defend the poor "pueblo peronista". Believe it or not, I am not peronista, but understand that what peronismo represents is this, is shorting distances with the rich, in a society where distances are not defined, where barriers are not clear, where borders are porous and with great mobility (posibility of change, cause its not always ascending mobility).

 

[Jaredberryman]

Somewhereinba, the answer to that question is very complex. To keep it short, there are people that really need those subsidies and that put them to good use. But there are also people who are blatant/serial leaches on society, a huge class of people that are like that. For instance, a friend of mine who is a lawyer has some friends that live in a Villa. They have several children and receive all sorts of planes. Despite not working, they have free housing and receive money. Their daughter gets a scholarship to study, which she then turns around and spends on clothing. When they shop at the supermarket, these people fill their basket full of the most expensive name brands. Meanwhile, my friend, who is a lawyer, and her husband, a mechanic, barely make ends meet. They don't buy name brand products and her husband has to work his butt off extra hours just to eke by to afford what is needed for family. Through hard work, over the years they have managed to improve things a bit, but just by a little bit.

Now, if the dad in this family in the villa decides to start working, he will lose some of those planes and risks a lot by working. As it stands now, his family will make it by and has what they need. But they will never progress farther than where the are now, and will always be dependent on the government for livelihood. They will never produce anything or contribute anywhere to society. As you can see, this is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, they are slaves to this kind of life with no way out (if he gets a job, he has no experience, and will start with a low salary, perhaps even lower than the money he receives from the gov. now). On the other hand, my middle class friends also have a right to be angry at this situation. They pay huge taxes out of their salary, and it's not right that the government take that and create this evil situation that robs the poor of their dignity and future.

This is why in Argentina, there are always class wars. It's one class against another. It's unfortunate, but that is the reality.

I don't know what the solution is. It would surely help if the education system was better. It goes much deeper than that though. There are solutions, but they are painful and slow ones that will require patience and will from the people of this country. It's likely to get worse than better in the short term.

 

[Somewhereinba]

Somewhereinba, the answer to that question is very complex. To keep it short, there are people that really need those subsidies and that put them to good use. But there are also people who are blatant/serial leaches on society, a huge class of people that are like that. For instance, a friend of mine who is a lawyer has some friends that live in a Villa. They have several children and receive all sorts of planes. Despite not working, they have free housing and receive money. Their daughter gets a scholarship to study, which she then turns around and spends on clothing. When they shop at the supermarket, these people fill their basket full of the most expensive name brands. Meanwhile, my friend, who is a lawyer, and her husband, a mechanic, barely make ends meet. They don't buy name brand products and her husband has to work his butt off extra hours just to eke by to afford what is needed for family. Through hard work, over the years they have managed to improve things a bit, but just by a little bit.

Now, if the dad in this family in the villa decides to start working, he will lose some of those planes and risks a lot by working. As it stands now, his family will make it by and has what they need. But they will never progress farther than where the are now, and will always be dependent on the government for livelihood. They will never produce anything or contribute anywhere to society. As you can see, this is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, they are slaves to this kind of life with no way out (if he gets a job, he has no experience, and will start with a low salary, perhaps even lower than the money he receives from the gov. now). On the other hand, my middle class friends also have a right to be angry at this situation. They pay huge taxes out of their salary, and it's not right that the government take that and create this evil situation that robs the poor of their dignity and future.

This is why in Argentina, there are always class wars. It's one class against another. It's unfortunate, but that is the reality.

I don't know what the solution is. It would surely help if the education system was better. It goes much deeper than that though. There are solutions, but they are painful and slow ones that will require patience and will from the people of this country. It's likely to get worse than better in the short term.

Good post. It also echoes what I hear a lot from all my Argentine friends. Is there a plan that forces people to work for their welfare payments? I know in most countries such a thing exists to stop the 'leaches' who chose to abuse the system meant for those who need it. Is the fundamental problem that tightening down on these payments would put a lot of people offside and destroy a lot of support for the current government? I know from basic psychology that people react extremely angry to having something taken away from them rather than not receiving something they expect but currently don't have. Can you imagine if they stopped futbol para todos.

 

[Matiasba]

Somewhereinba, the answer to that question is very complex. To keep it short, there are people that really need those subsidies and that put them to good use. But there are also people who are blatant/serial leaches on society, a huge class of people that are like that. For instance, a friend of mine who is a lawyer has some friends that live in a Villa. They have several children and receive all sorts of planes. Despite not working, they have free housing and receive money. Their daughter gets a scholarship to study, which she then turns around and spends on clothing. When they shop at the supermarket, these people fill their basket full of the most expensive name brands. Meanwhile, my friend, who is a lawyer, and her husband, a mechanic, barely make ends meet. They don't buy name brand products and her husband has to work his butt off extra hours just to eke by to afford what is needed for family. Through hard work, over the years they have managed to improve things a bit, but just by a little bit.

Now, if the dad in this family in the villa decides to start working, he will lose some of those planes and risks a lot by working. As it stands now, his family will make it by and has what they need. But they will never progress farther than where the are now, and will always be dependent on the government for livelihood. They will never produce anything or contribute anywhere to society. As you can see, this is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, they are slaves to this kind of life with no way out (if he gets a job, he has no experience, and will start with a low salary, perhaps even lower than the money he receives from the gov. now). On the other hand, my middle class friends also have a right to be angry at this situation. They pay huge taxes out of their salary, and it's not right that the government take that and create this evil situation that robs the poor of their dignity and future.

This is why in Argentina, there are always class wars. It's one class against another. It's unfortunate, but that is the reality.

I don't know what the solution is. It would surely help if the education system was better. It goes much deeper than that though. There are solutions, but they are painful and slow ones that will require patience and will from the people of this country. It's likely to get worse than better in the short term.

the social plans do not cover what a people spend in one month. Not a chance. As someone posted before, they are like 600 pesos per kid. And they must not have a job "en blanco" to recieve the AUH or similar plans. That they are all the day doing nothing because of the plan social is a myth. The social plan is a help they have to reach the end of the month. Not a salary. Is for unemployed and for the people who work in negro.

 

[Jaredberryman]

Argentine aupper and middle classes historicaly had fear of this people, not talking of insecurity, but of political experiences. Our upper classes are very diferent than europenas and american, they are open, they dont have clear borders, they are porous, theres always new arrivals... In Europe upper classes are much more defined, much more marked, you have nobility, and the upper classes have a history. Here in Argentina, whatever upper class family you choose, if you go back two or three generations, you have a history of migration, of poverty, of people expelled from thier countries. In the US, you have the racial thing as a distinction, that is a clear mark, a clear clausure the upper classes have, they will never accept black people as their equal.

So if you consider this and add a few political experiences of giving all the political power to the poor, making it almost equal to everyone, like the first (not the second, not the third) peronism, if you give them permisson to the excuded, who have the same origin of the rich, who have the same history (just that ones were more lucky than others) it is understandable to have upper classes frightened. They are defending the (social) distances, they are trying to close the borders of the upper classes, they are afraid of again being at the same level. Now we can argue lots of things of peronismo, but one thing is above all, its the gini coeficient, is the equality level, fighting the rich, called "oligarquia" to defend the poor "pueblo peronista". Believe it or not, I am not peronista, but understand that what peronismo represents is this, is shorting distances with the rich, in a society where distances are not defined, where barriers are not clear, where borders are porous and with great movility.

Matias, you are an idealist, but I personally think many of the ideas you have are completely impractical and also damaging. The problem is not just that a few rich people hope to control everything, although that is part of the problem that too few control too much. The problems are far more complex than that. Argentina has tried demonizing oligarchs and destroying them, and that has been tried in plenty of countries too. Of course it never brings prosperity in a general sense.

And your comments about the USA reveal how little you understand our culture. In fact, they were insulting. The most powerful man in our country is BLACK. For you to imply that there is some plot by rich and powerful people in the United States to keep black people poor shows how little you understand our nation. There is no such conspiracy. There is racism everywhere and it still exists in our country (and in yours I might add). There are plenty of black people that are upper class in our country and plenty of white upper class that accept them as equals.

You can be completely unrealistic sometimes.