What the hell is a "North American"?

[mercjoe]

To be honest I don't get pissed about US people being called "americans".

And neither do many of those using "estadounidense" and "norteamericano". for those people, including me, these words are just more accurate or specific.

I can't understand why you find it so offensive. It's a different word with the exact same meaning.

Ahh.. another pugnacious poster out to educate the great unwashed mases.

Funny your assertion that origin is irrelevant to contemporary meaning of the word Latin. Is that the contemporary meaing you yourself have assigned to it? Because I'm pretty sure that the courses offered at any universitiy (European or American in Latin American Studies would in fact argue against that.

And in re languge, I have heard ameriano/americain/etc used by people in France, Spain, Colombia, Venezuela, Brasil, etc when discussing someone or something from the US. So again, it's not restricting solely to English or to use in the Anglo-Saxon world.

But please, fee free to continue to condescend to the unwashed masses. A pedant needs her pulpit.

ETA - I actually avoid this entire discussion when asked where I'm from or what I am by identifying myself by my city. Eliminates the entire discussion. Of course then I have to spend 15 minutes explaining why I chose to leave NY to move here.

 

[John.St]

Wikipedia is a wonderful tool, though understanding the words makes it even better. Origin is irrelevant to contemporary meaning. The contemporary meaning of the term in question as used in the ENGLISH Language is a US version.

Although Wikipedia is a wonderful tool, as you write, I have my knowledge from professors Skidmore and Smith: "Modern Latin America", ISBN 0-19-512996-2 (they are, BTW, very critical of the derogative use of the expression, which they ascribe to bad education).

The contemporary meaning of the term in e.g. Europe is different from what you describe. To me it simply means 'a person who lives in the (mainly) Spanish/Portuguese speaking part of the Americas' where I have a lot of good friends from Mexico to the southern cone - same as saying 'a European' about us.

 

[steveinbsas]

'American' is not a term used globally for US citizens. It is a term used in the ENGLISH Language and Anglo-US culture for US Citizens. The ignorance of philosophy of language is devastating in this thread.

When someone from the USA speaking ENGLISH with an Argentine calls himself an American he is speaking correctly (or is using precise English) because that's what the word means in English. If the Argentine argues (in English) that he is also an American he is not speaking correctly (or using precise English). If the conversation is in Spanish and the Argentine says "soy americano" he would be correct...at least geographically (referring to the entire western hemisphere but he cannnot claim to be an "American" (from the United States of America).

If anyone from the US says "I am an americano" he is combining two different languages...and the statement could be interpreted to mean, "I am a cup of coffee at Starbucks."

1776 thing didn't change anything if your skin was black. It actually made the chance of freedom even less.

I think it's important to make the distinction between "free" and "slave" states.

Abd blacks in free states were not necessarily second class citizens, either.

 

[mercjoe]

¿ Vos sos Argentina ?

Disculpame, pero honestamente no da para que digas todo esto. El tema me parece una pavada absoluta y no da para tanto, pero con tu actitud le estás dando la razón al que hizo el post original.

Estadounidense, Norteamericano, Americano. Es exactamente lo mismo. El que intente buscarle la 5 pata al gato y busque mensajes ocultos es porque tiene algunas ideas retorcidas al igual que Karla.

The first free country in the Western hemisphere was in fact Haiti in 1804. The US was not a free country until 1865.
The US was certainly NOT admired by all other peoples in the Americas as model. There were millions of people who left the US to escape its particular model.
Early persons of the USA were not in fact called 'Americans'. They were called the American Colonists BY THE British. The French had another name for them, as did the Spanish. The english-speaking people in what is now Canada called them 'Republicans', 'traitors' and 'thieves'.

'Latin America' is not a geographic term for Latin America studies in universities. In that context "Latin America' means the culture of those people who speak Spanish and Portuguese AND who also happen to live in America. This includes people in the USA. The high brow use of the term 'Latin America' by the run of the mill US citizen means 'all people south of the US/Mexico border". This is obviously nonsensical as there are entire nations in said geographic zone which speak no language derived from Latin. Sadly the conventional use of the term 'Latin Americans' by run of the mill US citizens means 'brown skinned people who speak spanish'. You must understand why this is derogatory term - it is analogous to 'negro'.

 

[French jurist]

We also say "Les Ricains" in France

(French song in honor of the GIs) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VU52EzblZE

And the extreme-leftists (mostly) use the word "États-Uniens"

 

[steveinbsas]

Perhaps some of those who appreciate the differences in the languages will enjoy this challenge:

http://www.funtrivia.com/trivia-qui...-Same-Spelling-Different-Meanings-172706.html

 

[JoeGillis]

KarlaBA, please get a life. Your bitterness is blinding you. Please, wake up and smell the coffee, kiddo.

 

[Napoleon]

1776 thing didn't change anything if your skin was black. It actually made the chance of freedom even less.

'American' is not a term used globally for US citizens. It is a term used in the ENGLISH Language and Anglo-US culture for US Citizens. The ignorance of philosophy of language is devastating in this thread.

ENGLISH is the International Language, so I guess that there goes that argument.

Women couldn't vote in the US until 1920, so does that mean that the US wasn't a Free Country until 1920?

Oh, and then there's the whole thing with the illegality of intermarriages due to race...

What world are you living in?

 

[dr__dawggy]

When someone from the USA speaking ENGLISH with an Argentine calls himself an American he is speaking correctly (or is using precise English) because that's what the word means in English. If the Argentine argues (in English) that he is also an American he is not speaking correctly (or using precise English). If the conversation is in Spanish and the Argentine says "soy americano" he would be correct...at least geographically (referring to the entire western hemisphere but he cannnot claim to be an "American" (from the United States of America).

If anyone from the US says "I am an americano" he is combining two different languages...and the statement could be interpreted to mean, "I am a cup of coffee at Starbucks."



I think it's important to make the distinction between "free" and "slave" states.

Abd blacks in free states were not necessarily second class citizens, either.[/quote]


"[R]ace prejudice seems stronger in those states that have abolished slavery than in those where it still exists, and nowhere is it more intolerant than in those states where slavery was never known." --Alexis De Tocqueville, “Democracy in America

You might want to puruse this website before making too many glib statements about how the enlighned free states treated blacks. Blacks were treated as second class citizens in free as well as slave states. Not one of the shining periods of US history, for sure.

http://www.slavenorth.com/exclusion.htm

 

[steveinbsas]

"[R]ace prejudice seems stronger in those states that have abolished slavery than in those where it still exists, and nowhere is it more intolerant than in those states where slavery was never known." --Alexis De Tocqueville, “Democracy in America

You might want to puruse this website before making too many glib statements about how the enlighned free states treated blacks. Blacks were treated as second class citizens in free as well as slave states. Not one of the shining periods of US history, for sure.

http://www.slavenorth.com/exclusion.htm

Did DE Tocqueville also acknowledge that the first slave owner in what would become the United States was black?

http://www.adifferentopinion.net/t3786-the-first-legal-slave-owner-in-america-was-black


Back to the topc...well, sort of...

Here is a very interesting timeline regarding the history of slavery:

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/abolition-of-slavery-timeline.html

Note the use of the term "America" in the entry for 1808.