What the hell is a "North American"?

[steveinbsas]

Even today's definition of Mexcio's borders place it in North America.

 

[chris]

As Steve said, it's all about insecurity. Whenever someone insists on "North American", it invariably carries with it hostility toward the United States of America which stems from insecurity about being Argentine and Latin American. In two decades in Argentina I have NEVER EVER heard an Argentine say "I am an American" except when he/she was trying to make a point that Americans are nasty, imperialistic fascists for using the term "American" to describe themselves. I recall a taxi driver years ago who wanted to argue. As soon as I got in the cab he wanted to know if I were American. He then launched into a tirade against the United States, emphasizing the word "NORTE". He even said "I say NORTE AMERICANO because you Americans think you OWN Latin America". I wonder if Argentines are subjected to this sort of harassment when they ride taxis in New York or other NORTH AMERICAN cities! Anyway what I often find among the people of Barrio Norte / Zona Norte is a resentment at being labeled "Latino" by AMERICANS. They go to Miami or New York and don't identify with the culture they see. To them the Latin American nomenclature reresents a kind of inferior subculture in the US. They'd far rather think of themselves as Italian, Spanish or French than a part of Latin America. Other Latin Americans perceive this and it is a reason that Argentines are generally not liked in Latin America.

 

[chris]

Well, given 90% of the people in my life here are local, I can assure you not one of them would ever say "I'm American" when asked their nationality. They very proudly identify as Argentine. (In fact, I'm pretty sure all of them would rather die than have someone think they were anything other than Argentine)

Really, tempest in a teapot.

REALLY? Loads of people I know make a big issue of their European ancestry. Many even hold second passports from Italy, Spain, Britain and a few other European nations. I don't see the pride you speak of, more defensiveness than pride.

 

[genialf]

Well, given 90% of the people in my life here are local, I can assure you not one of them would ever say "I'm American" when asked their nationality. They very proudly identify as Argentine. (In fact, I'm pretty sure all of them would rather die than have someone think they were anything other than Argentine)

Really, tempest in a teapot.

What I meant is, that we like to be identified as Americans, meaning we were born in the continent.... Of course we don't use the term to define our nationality, so if you ask for nationality of course you'll get "Argentine" as an answer. American is what defines which continent we come from, just the way a Dutch person is also European.

And yes, it'd be horrible to be called united statean hehe.

 

[genialf]

Even today's definition of Mexcio's borders place it in North America.

I know that, but sometimes they divide America into North America and Latin America (which is wrong cause one is a geographical division and the other one is a cultural one).

 

[citygirl]

REALLY? Loads of people I know make a big issue of their European ancestry. Many even hold second passports from Italy, Spain, Britain and a few other European nations. I don't see the pride you speak of, more defensiveness than pride.

Valid point. I guess I was more thinking about their horror if anyone called them American (ie, implying they're from the US).

I find in general, pride & defensiveness go hand in hand here

 

[mercjoe]

that's absolutely untrue. It's just the way we called people from the united states, it's not really that hard to understand. The fact that some people might not like some things about your country is a toally different matter.

And btw, what's the problem about not liking the label "latin". That's a label that YOU use in a totally misleading way.

In fact many of those who don't like being called latins (the US meaning of latin ) are latins, not for being "indians" (which is pretty much the use you give to the word) but because they speak a romance language and because they have latin european heritage. But the confusion and ignorance US media has created is unbelievable.

I've read lots of people from the US saying stupid things and bringing up weird theories about people with Spanish names not having the "latin" looks (again, the US meaning of latin). Such us, "it's only the name", "his/her grand grand father must have been latin/hispanic but it faded away after mixing"

That's absolutely idiotic and ignorant. So why can't you understand people don't want to be labeled like that ?

As Steve said, it's all about insecurity. Whenever someone insists on "North American", it invariably carries with it hostility toward the United States of America which stems from insecurity about being Argentine and Latin American. In two decades in Argentina I have NEVER EVER heard an Argentine say "I am an American" except when he/she was trying to make a point that Americans are nasty, imperialistic fascists for using the term "American" to describe themselves. I recall a taxi driver years ago who wanted to argue. As soon as I got in the cab he wanted to know if I were American. He then launched into a tirade against the United States, emphasizing the word "NORTE". He even said "I say NORTE AMERICANO because you Americans think you OWN Latin America". I wonder if Argentines are subjected to this sort of harassment when they ride taxis in New York or other NORTH AMERICAN cities! Anyway what I often find among the people of Barrio Norte / Zona Norte is a resentment at being labeled "Latino" by AMERICANS. They go to Miami or New York and don't identify with the culture they see. To them the Latin American nomenclature reresents a kind of inferior subculture in the US. They'd far rather think of themselves as Italian, Spanish or French than a part of Latin America. Other Latin Americans perceive this and it is a reason that Argentines are generally not liked in Latin America.

 

[mercjoe]

yes, but they don't call themselves europeans when asked about their nationality.

Actually, there is (sort of), but it's about to fail.

 

[YanquiGallego]

Geographically, Argentina is a part of Latin America AND a part of South America, so whether they like it or not, both Latino (Latinoamericano) and South American (Sudamericano) are correct in reference to geographic location.

 

[KarlaBA]

Geographically, Argentina is a part of Latin America AND a part of South America, so whether they like it or not, both Latino (Latinoamericano) and South American (Sudamericano) are correct in reference to geographic location.

Wrong.
It is very clear that most of the USA citizens on this forum are having trouble understanding that the artificial constructs which they learned in their culture, do not in fact exist in other nations. The concept of 'Latin America' is a US term - a particularly negative one to be frank.

This thread is full of US citizens 'informing' Argentinos about what the concepts and definitions of terms of Argentine culture should be (as of course US citizens have a monopoly on what the 'real' concepts are). Take a look at what you are saying - you are attempting to live in a foreign country and insisting that you understand their culture better than them.

Understand this, when you are in a foreign culture and they refer to you by a particular identifier, do not fight it. You are fighting an entire culture and it is a losing battle.

It makes no sense to go around telling Argentinos that Christopher Columbus discovered America. It makes no sense to tell Mexicanos that the river that separates their country from Texas is call the Rio Grande. It makes no sense to insist that North America is a continent. It makes no sense to insist that 'Americans' refers only to US citizens.

This thread is a wonderful example of cultural imperialism and ignorance of philosophy of language. Wittgenstein settled this whole load of nonsense before any one of you were born. The fact that it is spawned from foreigners living amongst their host nation neighbors tell us more about how poorly assimilated the foreigners are than anything else.