What Would Dollarization Mean for Expats?

[sergio]

I still want to know why so many immigrants from other South American countries, and from the USA, come to Argentina and start businesses, if its worse than anyplace but the worst country in Africa?
My original objection was to the phrase
"Here, if you produce goods and services that the market wants, you're threatened, extorted, and taxed to the point that you have to move to Uruguay."
especially the part about threatened and extorted, and the idea that Uruguay is better for manufacturing.
I would agree the taxes need reform.
The tax codes here were essentially written by the oligarchs, in response to the power Peron gave the Unions.
The very wealthy here, mostly descended from the spanish land grant families, with a few mid 20th century immigrants thrown in, run everything, and own most of the big business, including the press, tv, utilities, energy sector, airlines, and more.
They also, curiously enough, are often the presidents...
Macri, Bullrich, and, yes, at this point the K's, are oligarchs, with vast structural wealth.
Milei seems to want us to assume he is also, but my guess is he is somewhere between Macri and George Santos in terms of wealth.

I would love to see the tax system shift from taxing 3 or 4 major ag exports, and raw materials, and instead have a broader set of progressive taxes.
I would also love to see the government actually support and encourage the export of the huge range of value added products made here, rather than just focus on soybeans and corn and wheat.
Turkey, for example, has a non-profit Trade Center in NYC that promotes Turkish exports to the USA, including warehousing, logistics, and trade shows.
Argentina does nothing of the sort.
The govermnent could easily help support the logistics and a showroom in NYC for argentine clothing and shoes- right now, individual companies do this on their own, and I have know some who sold in Japan and Paris, for example, and it was a lot of work. But the market was receptive, and the Argentine products, in everything from electrical transformers to pasta making machinery to shoes is all totally saleable, if it wasnt so hard to get it out of the country.

(and, no, I dont live in Retiro- thats where I work. I live in the extreme NW corner of Recoleta, a block one way I would be in Palermo, a few blocks another way, I would be in Almagro.)

How did the Ks get to be oligarchs? Wasn't CFK's father a bus driver?

 

[Agribotics]

Why is it bad?

Class warfare is like a dog chasing a car. Once you defeat the business owning class then what? Rely on the government to create jobs in state-owned factories and offices? Build walls to keep running dog capitalists from voting with their feet?

 

[sergio]

Class warfare is like a dog chasing a car. Once you defeat the business owning class then what? Rely on the government to create jobs in state-owned factories and offices? Build walls to keep running dog capitalists from voting with their feet?

No I mean why is dollarisation a gimmmick? Dollarisation would stabilise the economy and make doing business a lot easier.

 

[Redpossum]

No I mean why is dollarisation a gimmmick? Dollarisation would stabilise the economy and make doing business a lot easier.

Please cite us an example of this, a country in which dollarization produced these benefits.

 

[sergio]

Please cite us an example of this, a country in which dollarization produced these benefits.

There are very bfew countries that have dollarised however Panama (which is one) seems to have a stable business environment. Isn't it a major banking centre? I believe there is a lot of US investment there.

 

[sergio]

There are very few countries that have dollarised however Panama (which is one) seems to have a stable business environment. Isn't it a major banking centre? I believe there is a lot of US investment there. Anyway, as for Argentina, we don't know what is going to happen but dollarisation seems a real possibility given the profound crisis the country is in.

 

[TWB103]

Panama is corrupt as hell. Panama Files..

 

[Redpossum]

There are very bfew countries that have dollarised however Panama (which is one) seems to have a stable business environment. Isn't it a major banking centre? I believe there is a lot of US investment there.

There is "a lot of US investment" in some truly horrible places, nations with a abysmally low standard of living.

Also, when I ask you for a concrete example, and you reply with qualifiers like "seems to have" and "I believe", that doesn't inspire confidence. This is a nation of some 47 million people, and you are proposing radical financial changes which would turn their lives upside down. We need a little more certainty than that.

Let's face it. Milei is a stalking horse for major business interests who are only concerned with their own profit, and don't give a fat rat's ass about the welfare of the Argentine people. They want a situation in which they can rape the country of its resources, control its food production, and do so in an ambience of minimal environmental or social regulations.

In 2015 they used Macri, and the evidence of his backers was the fact that his very first act as President was to pay the buitres (vulture funds) every penny they were asking for, without even trying to negotiate. He even paid them their legal expenses for that failed and entirely illegal attempt to seize the Argentine Navy's cadet training frigate.

In 2019, Macri shit the bed, so they have cast him aside like a used kleenex, and Milei is their new boy, their traitorous little sepoy who will sell his nation down the river for 30 pieces of silver.

 

[SinPulgas]

Some people have some really crazy ideas.

 

[Reply Guy]

Libertarians are, by definition, loose screws. Because its not an economic theory, or a proven political option- its an ideological and emotional belief system, that is overwhelmingly espoused by affluent white men, who believe they should have MORE.
the reason that women didnt vote for Milei is that women dont fall for that shit- historically, libertarians run about 75% white men.
What Argentina needs to get better is reasoning, compromise, and slow negotiated solutions to hundreds of complex problems. This means time, patience, and the ability to accept the good over the ideal.
Exactly the opposite of a libertarian.
And, mostly, historically and globally, the arena of competent women (and I dont mean wealthy ex-montaneros).
Actual policymaking, retail politics, and problem solving is not glamourous, fast, or instantly popular, but it has a 2 millenium or so history of working, whereas there has never been a functional libertarian government anywhere in the world.
Milwaukee was socialist for a majority of the 20th Century, and it was a plodding, job producing un-phenomenal manufacturing economy that had lots of solid middle class jobs.
There is no example of a functioning libertarian economic system, even on a scale as small as a small city.
Because it has built in functional contradictions, glossed over by ideological macro "explanations".

I enjoy many of your posts, you have a deep knowledge of Buenos Aires, which I find interesting.

However, it's troubling that anytime you disagree with someone's politics you label them as "right wing trolls" , "white men" , etc.

I'm not white and don't consider myself ring wing. I've lived in Argentina over a decade. My wife's family has businesses in Argentina, I've been involved in businesses here too.

Have you considered that your experiences in Argentina may not line up with the experiences that others have had?

I have voiced support that the election of Milei may be a good experiment. I know you don't like Bullrich, that only leaves one option, Massa. I'd like to hear your case of why Massa is the best choice.

Most in Argentina, especially the working poor are having a very tough time. Villa 31 went for Milei. Villa 31 isn't filled with ring wing white men.

Please let's keep these discussions to ideas and not ad hominem attacks against those we disagree with.