What would YOU do??

[Ingrid]

Hey Karma, first of all, I want to say it's awesome to have a dream and I'm definitely the 'follow your heart' type and encourage others to do so because life is too short.

However (oops the dreaded word!), I agree with many others that you have to do it in a realistic and practical way. Not in anyway to throw your dreams away but be smart, do it with a plan and definitely lots of patience! I believe if you want something and work hard at something, it'll come, it may not come now but it will.

After I visited here the first time and I wanted to move down here so I went back home (missing BA crazily), worked, kept learning Spanish, saved as much money as I could in every way (like cancelling my cellphone plan and went with pay-as-you-go, made my own lunch etc.) Got my plan together, understand the possible new lifestyle (which I might need to eat empanadas everyday to save money), looked at my skills, prepared any type of resumes/references/portfolios/contacts, after 1.5 yr., I booked my flight and moved down here.

I have worked in many odd jobs since, now slightly more established (well at least with a more solid direction lol), but you definitely need savings. And while you work and save, don't forget to keep learning Spanish. Only speaks English does not take you far (I found that out after I got here really), most of the real good jobs require you to be bilingual.

My move has been, so far, one of the best decisions I've ever made. I've never expected it to be easy and I still get frustrated once in a while with challenges we face as a foreigner, but do I love it? Oh yes, I do!

 

[BSS]

Karma,

I had to make a similar choice myself. I studied here in 2006 and then returned to The United States to finish my thesis. I fell in love with Argentina and moved back without a concrete plan on January 1, 2008. I'm lucky enough to have a job and a great partner and I would give you the following advice:

1.) The Argentina you learned to love in your semester here is not going to be the same as living here. That also goes for the people you met and established relationships with. Knowing that you will be leaving a place in x number of months seriously changes your outlook and perception of a place.

2.) Pay off any debt you currently have and build up a good amount of savings to bring down with you. Finding a job and apartment down here takes time, money and hard work.

3.) Bring a copy your birth certificate, FBI background check and diplomas with Apostille seal with you. It's so much easier than trying to get them once your here.

These are the three big things I would encourage you to do if you plan to try and make a life for yourself here. If you want to come for a few months and have fun, disregard everything I just wrote. Either way, good luck and do what you want.

 

[steveinbsas]

Bring a copy (of) your...FBI background check and diplomas with Apostille seal with you.

The FBI certificate cannot be more than six months old when submitted to migraciones and if you return to the US prior to that you will need a new one when you return to Argentina.

 

[ba4u2008]

I would go for it & follow your dream. I would love to do that now. I still dream of living in BA & actually have a place there now. But once you get old & too accustomed to luxuries you take for granted, it's really difficult to adjust. Plus once you get shackeled with debt & mortgage payments, it becomes less feasible.

 

[mini]

Ok, then don't do a Biz masters -- the types of jobs you'll be eligible for after that are long hours and 6 digit salaries... sounds like you'd be miserable.

Come be poor in Argentina instead, 30% inflation and rising. You'll be happy as a pig in s***.

Argentina is NOT Europe. Don't even think that it's close to being the same. We certainly do not get the 6 week holidays of many European countries, and we definitely don't make the salaries. Most people living here who are foreigners and making local salaries will tell you they don't travel much and they really don't get to take holidays. That yummy European food? Pay through the nose for it here.

Argentina may be the most "european" country in Latin America, but it's not Europe. If you think Argentina is like Italy, sure, maybe like Southern (poor, 3rd world-like) Italy, but it's definitely not Rome or Tuscany.

Have you been to southern Italy? I've spent some time in southern Italy and we have family who live there. It is not "poor, 3rd world like".

But your posts to Michael are spot on. I would second the going to business school for an MBA seems to be the opposite to the kind of life he says he wants to live.

 

[Michael_CA]

Have you been to southern Italy? I've spent some time in southern Italy and we have family who liver there. It is not "poor, 3rd world like".

But your posts to Michael are spot on. I would second the going to business school for an MBA seems to be the opposite to the kind of life he says he wants to live.

Thanks for the advice mini, but the Masters I have been looking at is not an MBA, its an International Business Management program, in which I will specialize in working with NGO's and sustainable economic development.

And syngirl, I never said that Argentina was the same as Europe, it clearly isn't. What I meant was that similar to Europe, it offers a different and exciting lifestyle, even though most seem to find it a tough place to make a comfortable living.

 

[gunt86]

Have you been to southern Italy? I've spent some time in southern Italy and we have family who liver there. It is not "poor, 3rd world like".

Sorry, but all of Italia south of Rome is certainly not up to northern European standards of infrastructure, business, government, etc. There is a reason that the majority of the immigration out of italy in the last 150 years was from the south. Have you ever been to Napoli? Lima is a better run city than Napoli. And to really stir you up, are you aware that from an ethnic perspective, northern and southern italy are completely distinct? Northern italians are descendants from germanic people, mostly Tyrollian & Austrian. Southern Italians are greek and other Mediterranean peoples. it has been said that southern italians are Mediterranean mutts, and that is pretty accurate from a genealogical perspective. The difference between northern and southern italians is vastly wider than any characteristics in regional differences in the US or any other EU nation. Try to think of one world class company from southern italy..there are none. But there are many such companies in the north. It is a tragedy that southern Italia is so poor, corrupt, backward, uneducated, etc. Watch the film Gommora if you want to see what life in a southern italian city is like. I will say this though, the topography and the agriculture (the soil has special qualities) of southern italy (and in particular sicily) is some of the best in the world. I know everyone wants to be patriotic and proud of where they are from, but it is important to see the good and the bad so improvements can be made.

 

[Hellek]

I'd like to keep the topic on track. We only have to get one single northern italian and one single southern italian and that thread is hijacked
Let's sum it up as that there are cultural and economic differences within italy and everybody who compares something to italy should be aware of that.

I am writing because I am in a quite similar situation as Michael_CA and Karma are. I am from Europe (Austria), 25 years old. I have a Bachelor degree in informatics and a Magister (in the US you would call it Master) degree in business administration which I just completed (actually can't call myself "Magister" yet, still waiting for the paperwork). So I consider myself qualified and flexible for a range of jobs.

What I lack though, is foreign experience. Therefore, about a year ago, I decided to go to Argentina for 8-12 months once I am done studying. I started learning spanish and about the culture and people (conversationexchange.com is a good place to find locals for practicing spanish and learning about the country at the same time).
I am certain that I have to take this step now (and not later), because I'll never again have the amount of freedom I have right now. Besides that, the younger you are, the higher your ability to learn and adapt.
I started applying for internships at multinational corporations (mostly those with German origins like Volkswagen, BASF, Siemens, etc.) without any success. It is just a pain if you don't know anybody there, websites reveal no info about possible addressees and you are always directed to stupid databases where nobody will ever see your application. That can be really frustrating. Especially since I would not care about the wage anyway. Internships generally pay bad, in pesos that results in little above 0 anyway so I am glad I had the possibility to put some money aside. My plan is and was, to only offer working without wage if necessary, but so far I never got as far as to have a personal conversation. 80-90% of my mails get no replies, the rest are negative replies. In Austria they at least tell you "thanks, but no" instead of not replying at all.

I can only recommend you to do all you can to make use of contacts you might have, and to establish new ones. In BsAs (a year ago, I spent 2,5 weeks there for a basic spanish course) I figured out that a good place to connect with high educated upper class youngsters are tandem-meetings where locals meet native speakers of a certain foreign language (in my case german). Back then, my stay was too short to get much out of that, but with some time and luck, it might help finding someone who can forward your application to the right person. If not, you at least meet people you might otherwise not get to know (i.e. I met an introverted informatics graduate there, in my whole live I never met somebody like that on normal bar/club occasions)

The thing I learned is that in BsAs, contacts are more important than anywhere else. I do have the impression though, that it is also more natural to use them (or it is specific for Austria, to keep it more hidden, I don't know). I.e. an Argentinian from Misiones (living in Austria right now, a very very distant relative whom I barely know) organized me a stay at his wife's siter's (whom I don't know at all) place in Avellaneda until I find an apartment. Contacts from conversationexchange.com asked me for my CV+cover letter to forward it to some people after just a few hours of chatting, and so on. Quite frustrating and sad of course, if they have to tell you a few days later, that their friend herself lost her job in a downsizing program.

Concerning Europe vs. Argentina I think that Argentina is more of a constant challenge. In Europe, it is all or nothing. Either you find a company that gives you a job, or you don't. There is not much point in just flying there and continuing to try. If you find something, you'll have a good standard of living. Don't underestimate the costs of living though, food, accommodation, etc. are all very expensive here.
In Argentina, I expect a constant challenge. It is not that straightforward or "all or nothing" as the idea of working in Europe. You can just go there and try to make a living and continue trying to find a decent job. Of course being backed by some savings is better than having a loan to pay back. As some proposed, in that case the best thing would be earning some dollars first.
Anyway, I've earned my euros already and will come in 3 weeks (bar ash clouds, strikes, etc.). Let's see if I can finally get a few job interviews and ultimately a job. Additional ideas on how I might get my job applications to reach the right people are always welcome. I wrote them in spanish and had them proof-read by locals of course.

One idea I have is to find myself some web designers to whom I can "outsource" tasks from austrian clients. My best friends was active in that business charging good money but has no time for it any more. I hope it works out to find some argentinians who do that for less, leaving a margin for both of us. Any idea what web designers earn in BsAs?

 

[Karma]

Wow, you guys are really good! Such knowledge of Argentina (and other world facts!!) I really do want to thank you all for the input and encouragement, and the tough questions I have to pose to myself. I think for now I am going to take it trip by trip, a few months at a time until I can fully move and position myself where I want to be. But sincerely thank you to everyone who posted and gave a bit of input on my life long dream. Besos.



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