Who buys up all these expensive properties?

The city government through its Instituto del Vivienda de la Ciudad is working to help citizens buy their first home. Here is the email I received from the president of this organization:

I'm Juan Maquieyra, president of the Housing Institute of the City, and I want to invite you on Thursday at 17:30 participate in a meeting of neighbors you know why it is now more accessible and just buy a home.

I'd love you to come and talk and you discover all the advantages BA First House program, and new facilities there to rent with the reform of the rental system.

A hug,
Juan
 
I just bought an apartment. I didn't give fingerprints at the final signing. And I am still waiting for my DNI.

I'm not sure Aztangogirl. It might just be the Escribano didn't follow what is required or he/she didn't happen to require it. I am not even sure if it's a law, if it's what the Escribano requires, etc. I have had to do it on the last several but I can't say if it's a law or if all Escribano's require it. Did you buy a pre-existing property or new construction?

Is it good to buy apartments under costruction from know builders and hope that price will increase when the aprtment is ready or its better to buy ready made apartment.

Ceviche, well the key term you mentioned is "known builders". That's so key because there are many developers that don't know what they are doing, are new and don't have scale or good contractors, etc. I've purchased many new construction properties for myself including some at the pozo stage (hole in the ground). In every single case I made money buying early. Keep in mind however that in EVERY single case the buildings were really really late from when they said they would be done. Some as late as 2 years late. NOTHING ever finishes on time and they always take longer than they say they will.

Not to say that some weren't a real pain in the ass. One time I bought very early in the pozo stage. I paid a boleto (30% down payment), made payments for 18 months and only had the final payment left. Well, the developer who had done other projects before but wasn't super well known couldn't finish the project for what they said it would cost. Keep in mind we had contracts, did a boleto, I made payments, but at the end they just told all the owners that it would cost 20% more or they couldn't finish the building. They said we could sue them but that would just further delay things. Such is life in Argentina. The legal system is super slow there and it just wasn't a desirable situation. The owners reluctantly agreed to pay 20% more. Fortunately, all of us were up so much from the original purchase price we still did ok.

It's just that typically in Argentina the inflation is at least 30% a year and if the developer doesn't buy enough materials on the front end, manage and estimate their costs well, it can be a recipe for disaster.

But that is a good example of what can happen. Remember it's not like the USA or other first world countries where you have a working and functional judicial system. Sure we could have refused but legal matters take years to settle and expensive still dealing with legal bills. As soon as they were done, I quickly sold that unit and still made a good profit but obviously 20% less!

The further the development is from being done the bigger the discount but also the bigger risk. So obviously it's much cheaper in the beginning. Remember for the most part these are just speculation projects so the developer buys the land and doesn't have the money to build and they build with the pre-sales and keep using the funds from the sales of the units. The closer the building is to getting finish the more expensive it is because the risk level goes down. If sales stall, and the developer doesn't have reserve funds, the project can stall. You get the point.

I can't say one way or another if they are good to buy a new development. Me personally I never buy anymore new development in the pozo stage because I personally am not comfortable with the risk. I saw what happened with that one property and I'll never buy that early again. At the same time some of the biggest gains I've had were buying in the pozo stage. This was many, many years ago but I bought up studio apartments in Palermo before for as little as $50,000 in the early pozo stages and then the value of them now is about $150,000. But those kind of scores are non existent these days and prices are high.

No one can tell you if it's better to buy earlier or not. It's a matter of personal risk and how patient you are. Still, you have to know that even experienced developers have problems. The new construction these days are pretty shitty and not of high quality. There are exceptions to the rule but mostly it's just put up quickly as you can probably see if you visit any of these projects. You have experienced developers that put up buildings in Palermo back in 2007 that are still dealing with lawsuits because things weren't done right. (leaks, elevator problems, windows weren't installed properly and leaking, etc).

Also much just depends how much of a discount you are getting buying early. Property prices in Buenos Aires are always comprised of cost per sq. meter. So just always be mindful of what they are charging per m2. There is no official MLS there are no official costs per sq. meter so you just have to educate yourself at any given time what properties are actually going for. You can go to websites like https://www.zonaprop.com.ar and it will always show you the cost per sq. meter of the property. Just be aware how any sq. meters are uncovered and how many are covered because it doesn't cost the developer as much for the uncovered sq. meters.

New construction or high rises are typically always the most expensive properties vs. pre-existing properties. Buildings with more amenities (pool, gym, spa, SUM, etc) are typically more desirable and more expensive vs. buildings that don't have them. For future long term resale value (as well as short and long term rentals) it's all about Location, Location, and Location.

I own a vast portfolio of residential real estate in many different cities and countries around the world and I always buy in the best areas and I typically always buy for the long term. I'm happy to report although though there are periods of recessions in many of these areas, over the long term my properties in these good locations has steadily gone up and do pretty well with rentals.

I do think about capital appreciation but cash flow is more important to me because it's the rentals (cash flow) that allow you to just ride out the recessions. Typically when I buy for the long term I don't really care what prices are doing in the short-term. Still, I don't want to buy too high in any given city. Property prices are really high right now. I'm personally not buying at these price points. I've been selling my properties in Buenos Aires. I'll still always keep several no matter what prices do because they provide enough cash flow to easily pay off the bills and still manage to make some ROI.
 
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I'm not sure Aztangogirl. It might just be the Escribano didn't follow what is required or he/she didn't happen to require it. I am not even sure if it's a law, if it's what the Escribano requires, etc. I have had to do it on the last several but I can't say if it's a law or if all Escribano's require it. Did you buy a pre-existing property or new construction?



Ceviche, well the key term you mentioned is "known builders". That's so key because there are many developers that don't know what they are doing, are new and don't have scale or good contractors, etc. I've purchased many new construction properties for myself including some at the pozo stage (hole in the ground). In every single case I made money buying early. Keep in mind however that in EVERY single case the buildings were really really late from when they said they would be done. Some as late as 2 years late. NOTHING ever finishes on time and they always take longer than they say they will.

Not to say that some weren't a real pain in the ass. One time I bought very early in the pozo stage. I paid a boleto (30% down payment), made payments for 18 months and only had the final payment left. Well, the developer who had done other projects before but wasn't super well known couldn't finish the project for what they said it would cost. Keep in mind we had contracts, did a boleto, I made payments, but at the end they just told all the owners that it would cost 20% more or they couldn't finish the building. They said we could sue them but that would just further delay things. Such is life in Argentina. The legal system is super slow there and it just wasn't a desirable situation. The owners reluctantly agreed to pay 20% more. Fortunately, all of us were up so much from the original purchase price we still did ok.

It's just that typically in Argentina the inflation is at least 30% a year and if the developer doesn't buy enough materials on the front end, manage and estimate their costs well, it can be a recipe for disaster.

But that is a good example of what can happen. Remember it's not like the USA or other first world countries where you have a working and functional judicial system. Sure we could have refused but legal matters take years to settle and expensive still dealing with legal bills. As soon as they were done, I quickly sold that unit and still made a good profit but obviously 20% less!

The further the development is from being done the bigger the discount but also the bigger risk. So obviously it's much cheaper in the beginning. Remember for the most part these are just speculation projects so the developer buys the land and doesn't have the money to build and they build with the pre-sales and keep using the funds from the sales of the units. The closer the building is to getting finish the more expensive it is because the risk level goes down. If sales stall, and the developer doesn't have reserve funds, the project can stall. You get the point.

I can't say one way or another if they are good to buy a new development. Me personally I never buy anymore new development in the pozo stage because I personally am not comfortable with the risk. I saw what happened with that one property and I'll never buy that early again. At the same time some of the biggest gains I've had were buying in the pozo stage. This was many, many years ago but I bought up studio apartments in Palermo before for as little as $50,000 in the early pozo stages and then the value of them now is about $150,000. But those kind of scores are non existent these days and prices are high.

No one can tell you if it's better to buy earlier or not. It's a matter of personal risk and how patient you are. Still, you have to know that even experienced developers have problems. The new construction these days are pretty shitty and not of high quality. There are exceptions to the rule but mostly it's just put up quickly as you can probably see if you visit any of these projects. You have experienced developers that put up buildings in Palermo back in 2007 that are still dealing with lawsuits because things weren't done right. (leaks, elevator problems, windows weren't installed properly and leaking, etc).

Also much just depends how much of a discount you are getting buying early. Property prices in Buenos Aires are always comprised of cost per sq. meter. So just always be mindful of what they are charging per m2. There is no official MLS there are no official costs per sq. meter so you just have to educate yourself at any given time what properties are actually going for. You can go to websites like https://www.zonaprop.com.ar and it will always show you the cost per sq. meter of the property. Just be aware how any sq. meters are uncovered and how many are covered because it doesn't cost the developer as much for the uncovered sq. meters.

New construction or high rises are typically always the most expensive properties vs. pre-existing properties. Buildings with more amenities (pool, gym, spa, SUM, etc) are typically more desirable and more expensive vs. buildings that don't have them. For future long term resale value (as well as short and long term rentals) it's all about Location, Location, and Location.

I own a vast portfolio of residential real estate in many different cities and countries around the world and I always buy in the best areas and I typically always buy for the long term. I'm happy to report although though there are periods of recessions in many of these areas, over the long term my properties in these good locations has steadily gone up and do pretty well with rentals.

I do think about capital appreciation but cash flow is more important to me because it's the rentals (cash flow) that allow you to just ride out the recessions. Typically when I buy for the long term I don't really care what prices are doing in the short-term. Still, I don't want to buy too high in any given city. Property prices are really high right now. I'm personally not buying at these price points. I've been selling my properties in Buenos Aires. I'll still always keep several no matter what prices do because they provide enough cash flow to easily pay off the bills and still manage to make some ROI.
 
I'm not sure Aztangogirl. It might just be the Escribano didn't follow what is required or he/she didn't happen to require it. I am not even sure if it's a law, if it's what the Escribano requires, etc. I have had to do it on the last several but I can't say if it's a law or if all Escribano's require it. Did you buy a pre-existing property or new construction?



Ceviche, well the key term you mentioned is "known builders". That's so key because there are many developers that don't know what they are doing, are new and don't have scale or good contractors, etc. I've purchased many new construction properties for myself including some at the pozo stage (hole in the ground). In every single case I made money buying early. Keep in mind however that in EVERY single case the buildings were really really late from when they said they would be done. Some as late as 2 years late. NOTHING ever finishes on time and they always take longer than they say they will.

Not to say that some weren't a real pain in the ass. One time I bought very early in the pozo stage. I paid a boleto (30% down payment), made payments for 18 months and only had the final payment left. Well, the developer who had done other projects before but wasn't super well known couldn't finish the project for what they said it would cost. Keep in mind we had contracts, did a boleto, I made payments, but at the end they just told all the owners that it would cost 20% more or they couldn't finish the building. They said we could sue them but that would just further delay things. Such is life in Argentina. The legal system is super slow there and it just wasn't a desirable situation. The owners reluctantly agreed to pay 20% more. Fortunately, all of us were up so much from the original purchase price we still did ok.

It's just that typically in Argentina the inflation is at least 30% a year and if the developer doesn't buy enough materials on the front end, manage and estimate their costs well, it can be a recipe for disaster.

But that is a good example of what can happen. Remember it's not like the USA or other first world countries where you have a working and functional judicial system. Sure we could have refused but legal matters take years to settle and expensive still dealing with legal bills. As soon as they were done, I quickly sold that unit and still made a good profit but obviously 20% less!

The further the development is from being done the bigger the discount but also the bigger risk. So obviously it's much cheaper in the beginning. Remember for the most part these are just speculation projects so the developer buys the land and doesn't have the money to build and they build with the pre-sales and keep using the funds from the sales of the units. The closer the building is to getting finish the more expensive it is because the risk level goes down. If sales stall, and the developer doesn't have reserve funds, the project can stall. You get the point.

I can't say one way or another if they are good to buy a new development. Me personally I never buy anymore new development in the pozo stage because I personally am not comfortable with the risk. I saw what happened with that one property and I'll never buy that early again. At the same time some of the biggest gains I've had were buying in the pozo stage. This was many, many years ago but I bought up studio apartments in Palermo before for as little as $50,000 in the early pozo stages and then the value of them now is about $150,000. But those kind of scores are non existent these days and prices are high.

No one can tell you if it's better to buy earlier or not. It's a matter of personal risk and how patient you are. Still, you have to know that even experienced developers have problems. The new construction these days are pretty shitty and not of high quality. There are exceptions to the rule but mostly it's just put up quickly as you can probably see if you visit any of these projects. You have experienced developers that put up buildings in Palermo back in 2007 that are still dealing with lawsuits because things weren't done right. (leaks, elevator problems, windows weren't installed properly and leaking, etc).

Also much just depends how much of a discount you are getting buying early. Property prices in Buenos Aires are always comprised of cost per sq. meter. So just always be mindful of what they are charging per m2. There is no official MLS there are no official costs per sq. meter so you just have to educate yourself at any given time what properties are actually going for. You can go to websites like https://www.zonaprop.com.ar and it will always show you the cost per sq. meter of the property. Just be aware how any sq. meters are uncovered and how many are covered because it doesn't cost the developer as much for the uncovered sq. meters.

New construction or high rises are typically always the most expensive properties vs. pre-existing properties. Buildings with more amenities (pool, gym, spa, SUM, etc) are typically more desirable and more expensive vs. buildings that don't have them. For future long term resale value (as well as short and long term rentals) it's all about Location, Location, and Location.

I own a vast portfolio of residential real estate in many different cities and countries around the world and I always buy in the best areas and I typically always buy for the long term. I'm happy to report although though there are periods of recessions in many of these areas, over the long term my properties in these good locations has steadily gone up and do pretty well with rentals.

I do think about capital appreciation but cash flow is more important to me because it's the rentals (cash flow) that allow you to just ride out the recessions. Typically when I buy for the long term I don't really care what prices are doing in the short-term. Still, I don't want to buy too high in any given city. Property prices are really high right now. I'm personally not buying at these price points. I've been selling my properties in Buenos Aires. I'll still always keep several no matter what prices do because they provide enough cash flow to easily pay off the bills and still manage to make some ROI.


To buy a property now is very risky and I would only consider very good deals . The best time of course was 2004 when prices in Palermo Soho were US$ 700 a metre or less . Now it seems inspite of a dollar at 40 pesos prices are US$ 3,000 per metre asking price. The market is unstainable and I would highly recommend that if you have investment properties that you sell now as this has the hallmarks of a very long crash and will not be like 2001 when Argentina recovered in two years.
 
To buy a property now is very risky and I would only consider very good deals . The best time of course was 2004 when prices in Palermo Soho were US$ 700 a metre or less . Now it seems inspite of a dollar at 40 pesos prices are US$ 3,000 per metre asking price. The market is unstainable and I would highly recommend that if you have investment properties that you sell now as this has the hallmarks of a very long crash and will not be like 2001 when Argentina recovered in two years.

I’m NOT buying now and wouldn’t recommend buying now. I’d wait. But I’m not selling more properties as they are in premium buildings and I enjoy them and stay in them while I’m in BA. I bought them many years ago for much lower prices. I bought them to hold for the long term.
 
Ah, I'm not sure about the provincia. I've only purchased properties in the Capital and not the provinces so I don't know what the reporting is like there. But as mentioned, the past few purchases as well as the last few sales, I had to fill out detailed paperwork as well as they took my fingerprint.

No reporting.
 
No reporting.

Thanks Bajo. That's good to know. I have some Escribano friends and they told me they purposely have their office outside of the Capital (even though they conduct almost all their business in the Capital) just because they said reporting requirements can be different based on where their office is. Not sure what specifically they were referring to but sounds like things are more easy going and lax in the Provincia.
 
I look upon Buenos Aires as rather like the New York City of South America. New York City was in terrible shape in the 1970´s. It was dangerous, no longer "the place" to be and verging on bankruptcy. It recovered and people became willing to pay more and more to be there. Now it appears, prices are starting to inch down again, as prices were insanely high. For what it is, I think the good parts of Buenos Aires are currently a bargain, albeit out of step with typical salaries (as is true in New York, Toronto, Vancouver and many other cities.)
 
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