Why are Argentines so Angry?

[cabrera]

Negativity is part of the Argentinean character. The sort of sad, defeatist attitude that characterizes Tango music... I often hear complaints like "En este país, los tramitas son imposibles! Es así!" Ugh, how I hate that phrase, "es así."' so defeatist. I always ask, COMPARED TO WHAT???

What they don't realize is that problems exist EVERYWHERE. This isn't the only place where dealing with bureaucracy is difficult, where pickpocketing is prevalent, where the government is corrupt. They seem to think they invented all that. It's like a self-deprecating arrogance.

And if you offer suggestions (Maybe if there was a recyling system and people recycled there wouldn't be cartoneros leaving garbage everywhere? Maybe if there were more traffic lights there would be fewer accidents? Maternity leave REALLY should be at least 6 months!!) , they ALWAYS counter with a negative. "NO , pero acá no, porque acá nadie respecta nada.."' They complain about the problems but resist all change. It's quite frustrating.

It's definitely more prevalent in Capital then in the interior, but despite the hospitality and warmth of people in "el campo" , there still is even there that sort of disappointed feeling that they live en un lugar de mierda...

I wouldn't call it anger. I would call it sadness.

Let me ask the resident psychologist to define the charachter of her own people before attacking others who happen to be different to her.

I much prefer the unsmiling ,sad faces heres to the false honey waxed expressions prevalent in other destinations.

 

[unstuck]

Let me ask the resident psychologist to define the charachter of her own people before attacking others who happen to be different to her.

I much prefer the unsmiling ,sad faces heres to the false honey waxed expressions prevalent in other destinations.

No need to get so defensive -- I don't really mean it as an attack, after all, I do choose to live here and there are many things I love about Argentinean culture - but that's not what this thread is about.

I was in fact born here (in Bahia Blanca); I grew up in Canada but my parents are Argentinean and I grew up in a decidedly Argentinean household. I've always struggled with the sense of sadness and disappointment that my parents imbued in our family and always thought it was just part of the immigrant reality... and then I came to Argentina and I suddently understood where it all came from. I'm trying to learn to rise above it, lest become embittered and disappointed myself. I struggle to understand why Argentineans are so sad when this country has so much to offer.

I could certainly delve into the definition of Canadian character, which like all peoples, has it's good and its bad, but I think that, too, is for another thread.

 

[SaraSara]

Have you been to New York lately? Or London, where people stomp over you to beat you to the bus?

Buenos Aires is Paradise compared to those cities.

Sara

Buenos Aires is the City of Fury. In no other place have I met so many bitter, unhappy, paranoid, suspicious, on-their-guard people. Their prematurely aged faces, edged by frustration, military coups, daily disappointments, scrambling for coins, years of holding their money up to a light and shaking it because they can never trust its not fake, and belching city buses and shocking street level pollution, both air and noise, speak volumes. If Buenos Aires were a book, Id put it back on the shelf and stop reading.

 

[SaraSara]

I lived in the States for thirty-five years. It is true that Americans are not aggressive - they simply ignore each other.

I've seen a young, well dressed man having an epileptic seizure on New York's Fifth Avenue. He was lying on the sidewalk, still clutching his briefcase, twitching and foaming at the mouth, with his eyes rolled back. The pedestrian traffic would split around him and people would walk by carefully averting their eyes, lest THEY GET INVOLVED.

Had that happened in an Avenida Alvear sidewalk, onlookers would have rushed to aid that man - they might lift his wallet in the process, but he would be helped.

Americans make a religion of minding their own business, while Argentines get passionately involved in everyone else's business. Each position has its good and bad points - it depends on personal preference.

Sara

I would have to agree that Buenos Aires has become incredibly aggressive. I have been in the US for around 6 weeks now and I am amazed at how differently people behave here (in general).

 

[flyfreely]

I always say Buenos Aires has got to be the slowest and calmest big city in the world. I've never seen a city where the subway is coming and people not moving any faster through the escalator to try to catch it. As an impatient american, this is incredibly annoying. As somebody who wishes he could be more relaxed and less impatient, I kinda of appreciate this...

Have you been to New York lately? Or London, where people stomp over you to beat you to the bus?

Buenos Aires is Paradise compared to those cities.

Sara

 

[syngirl]

Why are Argentines so Angry? I used to think it was just me who thought this, but after being here for 6 months and speaking to plenty of locals and foreigners (like myself, from the USA).... I have concluded that this city, generally speaking, is very ANGRY. Mostly the women in the 28 - 58 range, but the men as well. So sad....

Cheer up Argentines!!!

Obviously in the 6 months you've been here you haven't had to do any tramites. Or any errands... or had to interact on a daily basis with anyone beyond your waiter or portero.

Bronca reigns here, and I don't blame them. After wasting the past few days riding around on my bike in 34 degrees weather, or going from one business to the next just to do what at home is a simple task, I'm angry too! When I'm sitting at my desk in my own apartment with my air conditioning on I forget that what lies outside the door really is a fricking broken 3rd world city. When you try to accomplish what should be easy tasks but end up being 3 hr long treks across the city on bus, train, expensive cabs, all because you cannot accomplish anything without actually going in person to have these fucking businesses here you do get angry. Really fucking angry!

Sorry I just wasted 4 days trying to find goddamn envelopes for our stupid wedding invites. I had some envelopes from the last party we did that are standard sizes, so I looked on the site where I had ordered them, they still had them, so designed the invite, went to go pick up the envelopes, oh they are out of stock.. and they are imported so won't be in for 2 months. So I spend ages looking around for some other ones, can't find them, call a shop, they have some that sound like they'll do but since of course they don't show them on their site I have to go look, so I go on monday, 20 mins on bike in 35 degrees, get there, they're closed. No signs nothing. So go home, call another shop, in San Telmo, oh they have a huge selection I should just go down, so I go the next day, 35 degrees, all the way down, walking through the streets, finally get to the shop, they're huge selection is 3 types all in red or green and the one white envelope they have is different dimension. Oh and guess what, they're all imported, won't have any for 2 months.

I've been to 5 different shops. guess what, Argentina doesn't make any fucking paper products. They import all this shit. 35 degrees, my whole weekend, half of Monday, half of Tuesday, and in the end I'm settling for a product I didn't even want, and I had to spend 4 hrs redesigning the bloody thing to another shape because they don't carry any in the dimensions of a standard fucking envelope.

Believe me, I understand the anger. This is just one bloody example. Of a simple task. That goes awry. There are a million examples.

We spent 3 hrs in the car (which still has no air conditioning because if you read another post my husband was held up at gun point and his car stolen, and they took the entire center console out, car found later) 35 degrees, going to different shops to find a bloody suit for my husband. In Canada last summer we went in and looked at Harry Rosen, we told the guy we weren't looking to buy, he spent almost an hour with us trying on hugo boss suits, 15 different ones, making sure they hung properly etc. We didn't have the money to buy so left it, here we've been into a bunch of places, no one even can be assed to show you anything, they'll give you one jacket to try on and then act as if it's a huge fucking deal if you want to look at a second example, they know nothing, if you ask about the fabrics they look annoyed because you've made them work, if you ask them about 2 button vs 3 it's obvious that you know more than the stupid guy who can't be bothered to sell you a suit etc...

Why are Argentines so angry? Get back to me in another 4 years after you've been here as long as I have, and you'll no longer be asking that question. Do a few tramites, try and open a bank account, try and start a business, try and buy something that would be so easy to get in a first world country, try and get some decent help around the house, try and get someone to fix something and do it right the first time, try and fid someone that will actually pay attention to detail and care about what they're doing. Then get back to me. Then maybe you'll understand.

Six months here, you're never going to understand yet. Why are women afer 27 angry? Because by then they've moved out of their mum's house and had to take on all the responsibilities of an adult in this city, and then it all becomes too much.

37 fucking degrees predicted for Friday, start of the weekend. Be prepared for some anger!

 

[jp]

As an impatient [insert nationalist here], this is incredibly annoying.

I think this sums up a majority of posts on this forum.

 

[tangobob]

I always say Buenos Aires has got to be the slowest and calmest big city in the world. I've never seen a city where the subway is coming and people not moving any faster through the escalator to try to catch it. As an impatient american, this is incredibly annoying. As somebody who wishes he could be more relaxed and less impatient, I kinda of appreciate this...

Never used the roads then?

Though the "no pasa nada" attitude is everywhere, somehow, get an Argie behind the wheel of a car and instantly is too long a time.
Personally I love the attitude (although I admit I am sometimes frustrated)
but will never understand how that changes with driving.

 

[bloody_bloo]

Outstanding doze of reality and I thank you, but only applicable to Buenos Aires and the porteños.

Let me enlight you. Buenos Aires is not Argentina. You have been long time here but you fail in the same way porteños fail to comprehend their surrounding environment, most of them still believe that Buenos Aires is the center of the universe, this attitude has its roots back in history when unitarians fought with federalists over the control of Bs. As. Port and customs.

Argentina does not end in General Paz Ave.

The whole thread is pointless, since Argentines are not only the porteños. The country is simply to big to generalize like that.

Obviously in the 6 months you've been here you haven't had to do any tramites. Or any errands... or had to interact on a daily basis with anyone beyond your waiter or portero.

Bronca reigns here, and I don't blame them. After wasting the past few days riding around on my bike in 34 degrees weather, or going from one business to the next just to do what at home is a simple task, I'm angry too! When I'm sitting at my desk in my own apartment with my air conditioning on I forget that what lies outside the door really is a fricking broken 3rd world city. When you try to accomplish what should be easy tasks but end up being 3 hr long treks across the city on bus, train, expensive cabs, all because you cannot accomplish anything without actually going in person to have these fucking businesses here you do get angry. Really fucking angry!

Sorry I just wasted 4 days trying to find goddamn envelopes for our stupid wedding invites. I had some envelopes from the last party we did that are standard sizes, so I looked on the site where I had ordered them, they still had them, so designed the invite, went to go pick up the envelopes, oh they are out of stock.. and they are imported so won't be in for 2 months. So I spend ages looking around for some other ones, can't find them, call a shop, they have some that sound like they'll do but since of course they don't show them on their site I have to go look, so I go on monday, 20 mins on bike in 35 degrees, get there, they're closed. No signs nothing. So go home, call another shop, in San Telmo, oh they have a huge selection I should just go down, so I go the next day, 35 degrees, all the way down, walking through the streets, finally get to the shop, they're huge selection is 3 types all in red or green and the one white envelope they have is different dimension. Oh and guess what, they're all imported, won't have any for 2 months.

I've been to 5 different shops. guess what, Argentina doesn't make any fucking paper products. They import all this shit. 35 degrees, my whole weekend, half of Monday, half of Tuesday, and in the end I'm settling for a product I didn't even want, and I had to spend 4 hrs redesigning the bloody thing to another shape because they don't carry any in the dimensions of a standard fucking envelope.

Believe me, I understand the anger. This is just one bloody example. Of a simple task. That goes awry. There are a million examples.

We spent 3 hrs in the car (which still has no air conditioning because if you read another post my husband was held up at gun point and his car stolen, and they took the entire center console out, car found later) 35 degrees, going to different shops to find a bloody suit for my husband. In Canada last summer we went in and looked at Harry Rosen, we told the guy we weren't looking to buy, he spent almost an hour with us trying on hugo boss suits, 15 different ones, making sure they hung properly etc. We didn't have the money to buy so left it, here we've been into a bunch of places, no one even can be assed to show you anything, they'll give you one jacket to try on and then act as if it's a huge fucking deal if you want to look at a second example, they know nothing, if you ask about the fabrics they look annoyed because you've made them work, if you ask them about 2 button vs 3 it's obvious that you know more than the stupid guy who can't be bothered to sell you a suit etc...

Why are Argentines so angry? Get back to me in another 4 years after you've been here as long as I have, and you'll no longer be asking that question. Do a few tramites, try and open a bank account, try and start a business, try and buy something that would be so easy to get in a first world country, try and get some decent help around the house, try and get someone to fix something and do it right the first time, try and fid someone that will actually pay attention to detail and care about what they're doing. Then get back to me. Then maybe you'll understand.

Six months here, you're never going to understand yet. Why are women afer 27 angry? Because by then they've moved out of their mum's house and had to take on all the responsibilities of an adult in this city, and then it all becomes too much.

37 fucking degrees predicted for Friday, start of the weekend. Be prepared for some anger!

 

[porteña]

My two cents...

I think we need to remember that some of these cultural traits are very similar in Spain and Italy. In my experience, Italians helped defined the Argentinian mainstream cultural traits and character best. And, of course, then we Argentinians did the rest... If we had had more Blacks around, maybe our national spirit would be more cheerful, like Brazil...

It is not easy to escape one's culture... for those of us who lived several years here and several years abroad, it is easier to start to see what is underneath first impressions. This takes time and open-mindedness... I discovered how Argentinian I was when I moved abroad... After all, we all come to life in a certain context and are socialized to wear certain "cultural masks" (I use this metaphorically, as an anthropologist would).

Dealing with anger and frustration is a challenge for almost anybody that is alive... From this point of view, we are all on the same boat - we all suffer, more or less to the same degree, when we face the reality that things in life don't generally go the way we'd like. It´s the same story, and sometime the same constellation of reactions, whether we are in Beverly Hills or in Villa 31 (but I don´t mean the are the SAME; nobody should live in a shanty town).

I agree with all the comments about all the things that don`t work here and could be better. The question I am trying to answer for my own life, and hopefully the question that the nation has to answer as a whole is, what do you do then? what`s the next step? Even when you have no power and no control over changing the big things, do you choose to live your life with sadness - con amargura - or do you choose to make the most of your life, here and now, and be thankful? Doesn´t it take one person to change to create big change?

The nature of the average Argentinian mind seems to stress the negative over the positive. But this is not just us. Most humans share this problem.