Why are Argentinians so accepting of corruption ?

perry

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Argentina is obviously not a stable developed nation like Australia. Its democracy is literally only 40 years old and it has been ravaged by predatory IMF loans no less than 3 times in that period... And Chile is a nation that still uses the constitution of the dictator Pinochet. It currently has 2million people protesting in the streets, about 500 of them have been intentionally blinded by police.
Argentina for most of its history was wealthier and more developed than Australia up to the 1960s . The issue here is not the imf but the casial and blatant acceptance of corruption prevalent here . You mentioned Chile but they have always spoken out and are not the type of people who would have tolerated the living situation of the Argentinian people with tremendous financial restrictions. very high inflation . and devaluations. The argentinian people casual acceptance of this has created that these abuses continue .
 

Weyland

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Argentina is obviously not a stable developed nation like Australia. Its democracy is literally only 40 years old and it has been ravaged by predatory IMF loans no less than 3 times in that period... And Chile is a nation that still uses the constitution of the dictator Pinochet. It currently has 2million people protesting in the streets, about 500 of them have been intentionally blinded by police.
IMF loans are not the reason for Argentina's lack of development in the last 40 years.

If the population believes that the problems are largely due to outside forces and that they are better off than neighboring countries, such as Chile, then there isn't going to be a big push to radically change the system that has reliably produced corruption, misery and poverty.
 

ventanilla

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Argentina for most of its history was wealthier and more developed than Australia up to the 1960s
A popular myth, but never true. Argentina declined in GDP per capita to lower levels than Australia in the 1930s and never recovered, and besides, talking about raw economic measures says nothing about allocation. In Australia, migrants were given many ways to acquire abundant land, whereas in Argentina land was highly concentrated in the hands of the colonial elite and their descendants with few ways for it to be acquired by anyone else (you may know them today as Sociedad Rural). Argentina's wealth was highly concentrated and its average living standards were much lower than the USA, Australia, Canada, etc, because immigrants were intended to be cheap labour rather than independent producers of national wealth. You can see this very clearly today as the rural elite are the prime symbol of the Argentine oligarchy whereas farming is more associated with smaller independent businesspeople in the other places mentioned.

The issue here is not the imf but the casial and blatant acceptance of corruption prevalent here
The issue here is not the predatory institution that is directly implicated in the last 3 financial crises in the country but a vague notion of 'corruption'. Righto then, I guess economic crises aren't caused by macroeconomic factors and poor fiscal policy, but rather some noname politician grafting themselves an apartment.

Chile but they have always spoken out and are not the type of people who would have tolerated the living situation of the Argentinian people with tremendous financial restrictions. very high inflation . and devaluations.
You mentioned Chile, not me. You also talk about this like Argentina wants inflation and devaluation or something, and as if Chileans aren't literally protesting in the streets right now against the thing you claim is good.

Pinochet, one of the most corrupt and murderous leaders in Latin American histories, was still a senator until he died, I remind you. The idea that 'Chilean institutions would never tolerate this stuff' is ludicrous. Argentina jailed its dictators, Chile let them roam free and gave them high political posts.
 

Rich One

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You mentioned Chile, not me. You also talk about this like Argentina wants inflation and devaluation or something, and as if Chileans aren't literally protesting in the streets right now against the thing you claim is good.

Pinochet, one of the most corrupt and murderous leaders in Latin American histories, was still a senator until he died, I remind you. The idea that 'Chilean institutions would never tolerate this stuff' is ludicrous. Argentina jailed its dictators, Chile let them roam free and gave them high political posts.
Chilean Military Officers convicted for Human Rights Violations jailed for life

Google Translate

"The Punta Peuco Special Prison, better known as Punta Peuco, is a Chilean prison complex, located in the Til Til commune, where military and former State agents, convicted for cases of violations of human rights, during the military dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet, are detained. It is under the administration of the Gendarmerie of Chile.

 

perry

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A popular myth, but never true. Argentina declined in GDP per capita to lower levels than Australia in the 1930s and never recovered, and besides, talking about raw economic measures says nothing about allocation. In Australia, migrants were given many ways to acquire abundant land, whereas in Argentina land was highly concentrated in the hands of the colonial elite and their descendants with few ways for it to be acquired by anyone else (you may know them today as Sociedad Rural). Argentina's wealth was highly concentrated and its average living standards were much lower than the USA, Australia, Canada, etc, because immigrants were intended to be cheap labour rather than independent producers of national wealth. You can see this very clearly today as the rural elite are the prime symbol of the Argentine oligarchy whereas farming is more associated with smaller independent businesspeople in the other places mentioned.



The issue here is not the predatory institution that is directly implicated in the last 3 financial crises in the country but a vague notion of 'corruption'. Righto then, I guess economic crises aren't caused by macroeconomic factors and poor fiscal policy, but rather some noname politician grafting themselves an apartment.



You mentioned Chile, not me. You also talk about this like Argentina wants inflation and devaluation or something, and as if Chileans aren't literally protesting in the streets right now against the thing you claim is good.

Pinochet, one of the most corrupt and murderous leaders in Latin American histories, was still a senator until he died, I remind you. The idea that 'Chilean institutions would never tolerate this stuff' is ludicrous. Argentina jailed its dictators, Chile let them roam free and gave them high political posts.
I am Australian born and believe I know the history very well. Australia had periods of great wealth up to the 1930s but the great depression destroyed the financial markets for a very long time .

Sydney Australia from the 1930s to the 1950s was a backwater compared to Buenos Aires Argentina with lower home ownership per capita.

Home prices in Argentina were also much more higher and once were the most expensive in the planet. Yes there was a lot of wealth concentrated in a few hands but also Argentina had thousands of stories of poor italian inmigrants who became millionaires. Home ownership until maybe 20 years ago was one of the highest on the planet meaning that the inherent wealth of Argentina was at one time evenly distributed amongst one of the largest middle class societies in the planet .

Australia has only become very wealthy and developed since the early 1980s before then the major cities while very charming were forgotten backwaters .

You also wrongly mentioned that Argentina since the 1930s was doing poorly . In actual fact until the 1960s Argentina had a higher GDP per capita than Australia. Spain . Austria. and Japan all first world countries today .
 
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on the brink

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Living here for now 18 years I have noticed that the tolerance for corruption and mismanagement of government coiffers is the highest in the western world .
Sweeping generalizations, ("the highest in the Western world") are meaningless.

Besides, I beg to differ. From my own experience, Mexico, Brazil, and Ecuador far surpass Argentina's corruption. Small consolation, that.....!
 

perry

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Sweeping generalizations, ("the highest in the Western world") are meaningless.

Besides, I beg to differ. From my own experience, Mexico, Brazil, and Ecuador far surpass Argentina's corruption. Small consolation, that.....!

Corruption is not just crime and paying bribes . Mexico Brazil and Ecuador are not currently suffering the hyperinflation and terrible devaluations that are present in Argentina . Inflation and devaluation is the worst cancer on a society and destroys the dreams of the middle class . In Ecuador and Chile just some small price increases on gas and subway fares set off the worst anti government protests in decades . In Argentina the prices of products go up at times over 10 percent in a month and in the case of electricity and gas they went up over 500 percent in a few years . There is no country in South America that would have been so accepting of these outrageous price hikes that amount to corruption as Big Business gives very little back to the consumer .
 

ventanilla

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You're citing a very old thesis called 'Argentine exceptionalism' that was popularised in the 70s during the dictatorship years. It's been largely debunked today - The thesis did not consider wealth distribution or the wage worker status of the population. Argentina was one of the most unequal nations in the world, with 25% of GDP going to the top 1%. That's worse than the USA during the Great Depression. c. The convergence process of Argentina with Australia and Canada: 1875–2000, Isabel Sanz-Villarroya

You also linked a Wikipedia article, so I assume you accept it was a valid source.

You said the Great Depression hit Australia hard. The same article you linked says "Argentina was one of the most stable and conservative countries until the Great Depression, after which it turned into one of the most unstable."

The same article notes that the decline began in the 1930s, not the 60s:

"Beginning in the 1930s, however, the Argentine economy deteriorated notably."

"However, the Depression permanently halted its economic expansion.[51] Actually, much like other developing countries, the economy was already in a downturn beginning in 1927, a result of declining prices."

It also notes the differences in the economies; Argentina did not industrialise and much of its wealth was concentrated in the labour non-intensive livestock agriculture industry and so most workers didn't share in it:

"For all its success, by the 1920s Argentina was not an industrialized country by the standards of Britain, Germany or the United States.[81] A major hindrance to full industrialisation was the lack of energy sources such as coal or hydropower.[81] Experiments with oil, discovered in 1907, had poor results.[81] Yacimientos Petrolíferos Fiscales, the first state-owned oil company in Latin America,[82] was founded in 1922 as a public company responsible for 51% of the oil production; the remaining 49% was in private hands.[83]

Exports of frozen beef, especially to Great Britain, proved highly profitable after the invention of refrigerated ships in the 1870s.[84] However Britain imposed new restrictions on meat imports in the late 1920s, which sharply reduced beef imports from Argentina. Ranchers responded by switching from pastoral to arable production, but there was lasting damage to the Argentine economy.[85]"
 

FallenAngel

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been ravaged by predatory IMF loans no less than 3 times in that period
Don't you mean ravaged by populist politicians that spent too much money? This seems like more blame shifting. Don't blame argentina that spent all the money recklessly. Don't blame argentina that begged the IMF for a loan so they can keep spending. At what point does Argentina have some culpability here?
 
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