Why Argentines don't look for new friends

SaraSara said:
Consider letting go or your psychologist and getting a dog instead - they are cheaper and more fun.:D

I have great fun with my pychologist. Nothing is funner than talking about yourself, even if it talking about your own problems.

En todo caso, I'd take a cat over a dog. Cats rock!
 
I decided to join this forum exclusively so that I can add my opinion to this particular discussion, as I feel very strongly about this subject. I've been reading other threads here treating the same topic and I wanted to add my perspective.

I am a Porteño, left argentina 17 years ago and never missed it and never regretted emigrating, and one of the key reasons for that to happen was exactly what is being discussed here: I had enough of feeling like a foreigner or "not quite the same as the majority" in my own home.

I find the appreciations expressed here, about how difficult porteños can be to be absolutely true and accurate.

To me, it's not that difficult to be an outsider in Bs As (or Argentina, but never lived in the interior so I can't tell). You can be an argentine, born and bred, and still not belong because your individuality makes you stand out as different: you can talk endlessly about Buenos Aires being a cosmopolitan and world class city, but lightly scratch the surface and you'll find small town mentality. Insularity pretty much sums it up perfectly.

And I want to make sure I am not saying this to compare Arg to other countries.

God knows I did all that stuff about joining an activity, do courses, be actively involved as much as I could in everything. It's not enough I'm afraid. There are deeper currents and stronger elements that bond people, you can join all the choirs and knitting clubs and stamp collecting societies in town, people will still find reasons of their own to like you or dislike you, ways to embrace you or reject you regardless of your own efforts, enthusiasm and willingness.

In my view, there are very defined cultural elements, behaviours and traits that you must possess, profess, do, believe in etc, in order to be really part of the national fabric. If you do not show signs of having some, or any, of those qualities then you'll have a very hard time if you intend to feel like you belong. Some of them are having one of those clannish large families, those lifelong friends from childhood, believing in all the national myths, being football mad, etc.

And I'm not sure that exclusively an argentine thing, I'd say it's universal.

Then there are other issues: being judgemental is normal in Argentina, not being open minded is too, individual free thinkers are unusual if not regarded as suspect, as is anybody who's not easy to pigeonhole. Intellectuals aren't massively popular either, they're appreciated mostly or only within the cultural elite. I'd as far as to say that you have to be a stereotype of one or another kind to have better chances to fit in.

When I read that warm and welcoming, supportive large families are the norm, my bloods boils. Not in my experience they aren't!

For whatever complex (or otherwise) reasons I never managed to belong to one of those ultra tightly knit clans, I couldn't keep a "childhood friends gang" -I tried- my extended family, not being very big to begin with, is also very distinctively not the supportive, warm and "there for you" type that some here argue is "typically" argentine. As if elsewhere in the world there weren't large loving families!

I can go on endlessly with examples and so on, but for what?

I can only begin to imagine what it might be like for an expat or a perma-tourist to try and fit in Bs As when I, as a local, got the same treatment newcomers say they get, only I got it on a lifelong basis till I left for Europe, where I am really a foreigner so at least there is a real reason for feeling like it.
 
NoPat said:
I decided to join this forum exclusively so that I can add my opinion to this particular discussion,
as I feel very strongly about this subject. I've been reading other threads here treating the same
topic and I wanted to add my perspective.

I am a Porteño, left argentina 17 years ago and never missed it and never regretted emigrating,
and one of the key reasons for that to happen was exactly what is being discussed here: I had
enough of feeling like a foreigner or "not quite the same as the majority" in my own home.

I find the appreciations expressed here, about how difficult porteños can be to be absolutely true
and accurate.

To me, it's not that difficult to be an outsider in Bs As (or Argentina, but never lived in the interior
so I can't tell). You can be an argentine, born and bred, and still not belong because your individuality
makes you stand out as different: you can talk endlessly about Buenos Aires being a cosmopolitan
and world class city, but lightly scratch the surface and you'll find small town mentality.
Insularity pretty much sums it up perfectly.

And I want to make sure I am not saying this to compare Arg to other countries.

God knows I did all that stuff about joining an activity, do courses, be actively involved as much
as I could in everything. It's not enough I'm afraid. There are deeper currents and stronger elements
that bond people, you can join all the choirs and knitting clubs and stamp collecting societies in town,
people will still find reasons of their own to like you or dislike you, ways to embrace you or reject you
regardless of your own efforts, enthusiasm and willingness.

In my view, there are very defined cultural elements, behaviours and traits that you must possess,
profess, do, believe in etc, in order to be really part of the national fabric. If you do not show signs of
having some, or any, of those qualities then you'll have a very hard time if you intend to feel like you
belong. Some of them are having one of those clannish large families, those lifelong friends from
childhood, believing in all the national myths, being football mad, etc.

And I'm not sure that exclusively an argentine thing, I'd say it's universal.

Then there are other issues: being judgemental is normal in Argentina, not being open minded is too,
individual free thinkers are unusual if not regarded as suspect, as is anybody who's not easy to pigeonhole.
Intellectuals aren't massively popular either, they're appreciated mostly or only within the cultural elite.
I'd as far as to say that you have to be a stereotype of one or another kind to have better chances to fit in.

When I read that warm and welcoming, supportive large families are the norm, my bloods boils.
Not in my experience they aren't!

For whatever complex (or otherwise) reasons I never managed to belong to one of those ultra tightly
knit clans, I couldn't keep a "childhood friends gang" -I tried- my extended family, not being very big
to begin with, is also very distinctively not the supportive, warm and "there for you" type that some
here argue is "typically" argentine. As if elsewhere in the world there weren't large loving families!

I can go on endlessly with examples and so on, but for what?

I can only begin to imagine what it might be like for an expat or a perma-tourist to try and fit in Bs As
when I, as a local, got the same treatment newcomers say they get, only I got it on a lifelong basis
till I left for Europe, where I am really a foreigner so at least there is a real reason for feeling like it.

Your story sounds really sad, I as a local can only say that I do not share or like most of what is considered typical in Argentina, yet my friends and some people like me exactly for those reasons. I think when you just work to hard to blend in, it only gets worse! I think there are different circles of people here, some are very open, others are plain a***les, it is probably not easy to find them or read them at first. Of course of some it gets more difficult as you tend to run into the same type of people in Palermo, Recoleta, Belgrano, they are different places and each has its own identity and so do the people, and to be honest they are not the most true, friendly and open types. That is just a personal observation.
 
You know NoPat, as I've been reading this thread I was thinking exactly of people like you. What if you don't LIKE your friends from school? Or your family? Or think differently from them? Or you just find you've moved on? You're stuck with them forever?

Living in a different country certainly helps the feelings of being an outsider. If you feel "foreign" at home, you might as well go some place you really are foreign.

I have to say I would hate to be stuck with only the people I've already met as friends.
 
Where should I start? I am an Argentine and NONE of my current best friends are school or college mates. The friend I spend most time with is a 'recent' friend, we met each other about 2 years ago.
Most of my friends hang out with people they met at the uni or at work, as is actually quite normal everywhere in the World (at least in my age class, mid-thirties here).
Sure it is not easy to make friends in BA, but tell me which big city in the World is easy for making friends? Being a foreigner adds to it. The first friends I made while living abroad were foreigners too. This is normal, nowhere people want to invest mucht time in foreigners until they are convinced they are there for the long haul and not leaving the country next week.
The generalisations in this thread are just terrible, almost insulting. Most posters fail to recognise that BsAs is NOT Argentina, there are 2 times more people in the rest of the country.
If I was unable, after some years, to make friends in a city with 14 Million people (a huge pot full of ugly, nice, stupid, intelligent people)...then I would really start looking at my own yard to see what's wrong.
 
I was going to say something myself but No Pat and Amargo really said it best.

I think it is more of a generational thing. The older generations are stuck in these old stereotypes, mindsets and generalizations. The younger generations are and have been breaking those molds.

Hopefully we can all get away from stereotyping ourselves and others.
 
If I was unable, after some years, to make friends in a city with 14 Million people (a huge pot full of ugly, nice, stupid, intelligent people)...then I would really start looking at my own yard to see what's wrong.
Very true.

Like many others, I also was several times in a position where i was unable to make friends. But it never occurred to me that it was EVERYONE elses fault!!. That is actually textbook argentine mentality :D.
 
Amargo:

Which big city in the World is easy for making friends? Practically as soon as I arrived in London I started to make new friends, and some have been with me for all these almost 20 years I've lived here. Most of them -if not all- are British. I will never believe for one split second that you can even begin to compare the open mindedness, tolerance, embracing of diversity and cosmopolitanism of Londoners with what goes on in the streets of Bs As.

Fedecc:

It's not about blaming everyone else for not having friends, I am talking about the different types of friendships: the granite-solid cliques that are the core of BA society, inaccessible to outsiders if you're not family or on the "childhood friend" level, and the "new friends" that you make along the way and come and go and may stay in your life or not, and keep you company while life happens.

I had plenty of the second kind in my Buenos Aires life, but never got into being part the cemented hard fabric of the first kind. Not having one of those wooonderfulll lovely families with 76 uncles and aunties and an army of cousins all caring for each other makes a difference too. I can assure you some of my own relatives are just as weird and rude as some of the examples that have been given here, and that's for no fault of my own.

AlexfromLA:

Yes I also think it's a generational thing and I'm glad it's being mentioned, I hope it's true it is changing. My experiences are almost 20 years old, I can only speak for myself.
 
Just thought I should add the other side of the argument here...
In the past few weeks alone I've been invited into four Argentine family's homes, and to a local wedding, where everyone was really welcoming. I had an Argentine boyfriend for a while and him, his family, his friend's families and even his extended family all took me in, fed me, and chatted to me (and my spanish is just about intermediate).

I have a great friend here who lives in Provincia and she often invites me out to her very modest home for a traditional asado, where her grandmoter insists I come to visit her too.

And these are 'typical' people who have grown up and lived in the same place forever, with the same group of friends from school etc. etc.

Maybe I've just been very lucky, over and over, but I don't think we can tar all Argentinians with the same brush.
 
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