Will the real bullies please stand up

perry

Registered
Frank Almeida is now, on his blog playing the victim. As he says "I just got a second chance in life to stand up to a bully. Wouldn´t you take that opportunity?" I will happily take that opportunity now on behalf of all the moderators at www.baexpats.org.

In addition to baselessly calling the moderators at the baexpats group "scammers" and "crooks", Frank Almeida, one of the moderators over at BANewcomers, refers to a "watch" site set up by his good friend YanquiMike (who campaigned together with Frank on the ¨progressive ticket" this year for Democrats Abroad elections), whose "watch" site was created at least as far back as early 2007 to monitor and "watch" us here at the larger BA Expats Group. Baexpat group is about 10x the size of BANewcomers with 100s of posts per day - could that have anything to do with the antagonism coming from BANewcomers moderators? Or could it be that they aggressively censor all remotely touchy topics over there at BANewcomers, and are angry we don't do the same? Have you noticed that there are never any remotely controversial topics over there - just subjects like where to find peanut butter or how to get my DNI? Where did they all go?

Back to the "Watch" site - what's on this site that Frank links to from BANewcomers? A common theme of the watch site, started more than 2 1/2 years ago to "monitor" the baexpat group, seems to be that there is not enough moderation - that not enough comments are censored and too much is allowed through (ironic considering Frank and his friends are now complaining that there is too much moderating going on at baexpats in 2009).

Another main topic that keeps recurring on the watch site is that indextar, owned by one of the moderators, "makes money" from www.baexpats.org. The irony is huge - not only does indextar make almost no money (about US$ 100 a year) - but the BANewcomer group of friends (Frank, YanquiMike, et al.) are some of the most successful and wealthy expats in the city. How rich that they begrudge a moderator at a competing site to dare (!!) attempt to make any money.

What other scary stuff can you find on the baexpats "watch" site? What bullying tactics can you find there? Just setting up a monitoring site of the competing Buenos Aires expat forum is bullying enough, wouldn´t you say? But let's see what they say. How about:

A) Threatening baexpat moderators over their immigration status, including:

"Is your favorite nest of home-grown machiavellis actually run by illegals? Now that they have an "immigration lawyer", don't you think that it would behoove them to pony-up with a public description of their own legal status here in the Argentine... even if they have to lie about it? ...

"I think it's HIGH TIME that Chris, Igor, and Pericles pony up with their own particular immigration status! What do YOU think?" ...

Seriously, here's a couple of questions for you, Anon:
1. What's your beef with Chris, Igor, and Pericles stating for all our general edification what their immigration status is?
2. What would be your reaction to finding out that one or all were actually here illegally?

(Wow you would not want to cross these guys...who's the bully??)

B) Hoping that people who post freely might be "investigated" by Argentine "authorities", (Wow again, you would not want to cross these people would you?): e.g.

"Nothin' like a friendly bunch of expats. These people spit on Argentina. Expect the local authorities to peek in on these freebooters.
Do you want to be associated with this bunch when local bureaucrats want to ask you questions?... (Wow again! And who sent those local bureaucrats? But not to worry - Argentina's protection of free speech is far beyond what these people think should be allowed.)

But wait, there's more:

"But what if... one of their anonymous posters starts to enjoy being able to misrepresent himself? What if one of the "members" starts to feel encouraged to play around with the concept of identity?
Could the warm fuzzy feeling that the BAEG forum gives to pretenders... lead to identity theft? Naah. Couldn't happen.
But what if it did? Would the Argentine authorities become interested? Would they wish to speak with anyone from the "Group"...besides the obvious owners? (Wow again! Who's calling the Argentine authorities exactly? Do you have them on speed dial? So you think anyone posting not under their actual name should be visited by the Argentine authorities?? Of course no one over at BANewcomers would ever post under anything other than their actual name.)

and

"My advice: stay away. Any association with this group could well come back to haunt you." (Is that advice or a threat?)


C) Clearly being opponents of free speech - or at least speech different from what he/they believe to be true:

"And if someone tells you an opinion but insists that it is a fact... they just told you a lie. I do not believe in the freedom to express lies.

(Wow - all opinions expressed as facts should be banned!!)

He goes on to say that the BAexpatsgroup is "A celebration of free enterprise and free speech." but then gives some surprising exceptions:
"However:
#5. The Buenos Aires Expatriates Group's forum encourages disparaging, hateful, and insulting comments about Buenos Aires and Argentina in order to create that controversy." (Free speech does not include a disparaging comment about Buenos Aires?!" So throughout all of Argentina, no one is making any disparaging comments about Argentina or Buenos Aires? Or is this a special expat-exception to the law?)

Or how about this other surprising exception to what you should be allowed to post:

#6. The Buenos Aires Expatriates Group's forum allows people that have never even visted Buenos Aires to make posts as if they live in Buenos Aires. (The moderators should ban comments from those who have never visited Buenos Aires - or demand they self identify?! How would the moderators enforce this exactly? Does BANewcomers do this ??

Here's another good one from the "watch" site:

#7. The Buenos Aires Expatriates Group's forum allows people that are not expatriates to make posts as if they are expatriates...Buenos Aires or otherwise. The site has the existing technology to identify these people or at least require self-identification...but they choose not to use it. The "Expatriates" portion of their name is a lie. (No postings by anyone who is not physically in Argentina?! Does BANewcomers enforce this same requirement? Does BAnewcomers also strictly kick out all group members once they have been in Argentina awhile and are no longer "newcomers" ?


Whew - and to think Frank, Mike and their BANewcomers allies are playing the victim card at the moment! The aggressor and victimizer can play victim only until you point out their deeds and words which show the opposite. We the moderators at www.baexpats.org have not called Frank, Mike etc ¨crooks¨ or ¨scammers¨ simply because they are successful business people in Argentina. We have not started a monitoring ¨watch¨ site of BANewcomers, we have not made threatening statements about their immigration status or insinuated that we might try to send Argentina authorities to investigate those who post comments on BANewcomers that might displease us. In fact we have paid completely no attention to the other expat forum and we think both should be able to coexist.

We are not the bullies here. Will the real bullies please stand up!!!
 

austin

Registered
Do I understand that all this is because someone criticized a cookie? What is so terrible about that? Anyone who is in business knows that you are going to get criticism. Why all the fuss? Why should this website censor consumer comments? And why all the name calling - "scammer", "crook"? These are serious accusations. Can they be justified? Does the accuser have any proof? Sensible adults don't go around making charges like that.
 

EvergreenGal

Registered
After reading all the different posts on this subject it seems to me that the "cookie review" is the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak.

You can only put up with so much crap being thrown at you for so long...then you need to make a stand. I don't blame Perciles for standing his ground, it's the right thing to do, but I also think now that the "dirty laundry" has been aired...it's time to take these issues behind closed doors and off both websites.

Enough is enough....it will only get worse before it gets better, if the issues are left up on the different websites for people to comment on....IMO
 

Napoleon

Registered
EvergreenGal said:
I also think now that the "dirty laundry" has been aired...it's time to take these issues behind closed doors and off both websites.
I'd never even heard of the other website and I don't plan on clicking on on it see what's up. (Also, I thought it was a joke when I kept reading "BAN*****". But maybe it's not.)

Good luck with the others. I'll keep giving my wonderful advice and reviews (both good and bad) here.

suerte,

Napoleon

PS- Tell Igor we continue to wish him the best.
 

Joe

Registered
Is there any reason the two antagonists need to deal with each other? Why not just agree to have nothing to do with each other in the future and to go your separate ways - it's worked with all my ex-gfs...
 

perry

Registered
The hypocrisy continues on BA newcomers. I cannot post and was put on moderated status after just one comment.

Whew - and to think Frank, Mike and their BANewcomers allies are playing the victim card at the moment! The aggressor and victimizer can play victim only until you point out their deeds and words which show the opposite. We the moderators at www.baexpats.org have not called Frank, Mike etc ¨crooks¨ or ¨scammers¨ simply because they are successful business people in Argentina. We have not started a monitoring ¨watch¨ site of BANewcomers, we have not made threatening statements about their immigration status or insinuated that we might try to send Argentina authorities to investigate those who post comments on BANewcomers that might displease us. In fact we have paid completely no attention to the other expat forum and we think both should be able to coexist.

When are they going to comment on the facts of this situation?

I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant.
 
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