Work and Salary Expectations

Guillo

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jaredwb said:
Sorry but you are gravely mistaken, NO company that outsources to Argentina would EVER agree to 30% increases in services (kind of defeats the purpose). If that is the case, they'll move to India or China where they can get the same service for 1/2 (or less) than they pay for here.

And I'd love to see what lawsuits have hold the external client responsible...that is a joke.
Buddy, if you are totally clueless please don't post. I'm talking first person experience, you haven't made business in buenos aires....ever? Or for a couple tens of years?
 

Guillo

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jaredwb said:
Guillo, I don't think they are trying to portrait all employees as socialist, just you :)

But again, with all due respect, you are completely and 100% wrong in everything you have written on this topic.

However, I can understand where you are coming from. Still, my guess is that until you get to a point in your career that you own a company or are in Sr Mgmt where you have P&L responsibilities, you will continue to live in a misguided reality. ;)
Well, if its not the voice of experience in business in Argentina!
I really dont care what your opinion is, really. And you can afford to ignore what the employee feels because you dont care, you dont have a business and you dont employ people here. So why are you still writing on this? Anything new to add?
 

Guillo

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jb5 said:
I was mystified, as a newcomer, as to who gives 30% raises. I felt kind of stupid when I got to the bottom of it. Duh, it's the government. Christina just prints more money and voilà:

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/59196/teachers-reject-gov’t’s-increase-offer

There was also this in today's paper. Thoughts?

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/59187/argentina’s-suicidal-exchange-rates
How about banks?
How about industries?
How about commerce?
How about transportation?
How about the rest of the unions? You know, most of the people is in one union or another, and they all applied inflation adjustments to the salary.

I don't think any one of those unions arranged for less than a 20% increase last year.

Its not just the public employees.The whole country adjusts to inflation.
(Well, except accounting, that's much more complicated because of K's denial of inflation existence)
 

citygirl

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Guillo - personal argument aside between you and Jared - let me assure you that no client would agree to a huge increase in price just because of inflation in Argentina. Outsourcing is done because there is a cost benefit.

Additionally, the vast majority of my clients have had salary freezes, travel restrictions, etc. If they don't give their own internal employees raises, they certainly are not going to give an outsourced provider a huge increase because my costs in Argentina have increased. That's not the way it works.

Again - it is what it is. We will not put new projects here and if costs continue to increase, we'll simply look at another hub for our LATAM business. Again, from a personal note, that would sadden me as this is my home and I want to contribute. But if it becomes cost-prohibitive for our business, we'll look at one of the many other more stable options. FWIW - I oversee projects in lots of other countries and Argentina is by far our most expensive. It costs me less to do business in Europe than it does here.
 

Guillo

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TrevorCito said:
Really Guillermo...? Por favor, las crees vos? This quotation is just socialistic rhetoric at the cost of innovation, market forces and capitalism. It is utter rubbish. Argentina is the only country that I know that has regressed from first world country to a third world country in less than 50 years.

Like mentioned in my previous post, companies in Argentina need to choose employees that are more aligned with their values. If a company values socialistic values then hire socialistic staff. If they value capitalistic values (making money and a profit) then they need to identify and hire staff with stronger capitalistic values.
For the better or the worse, that's the constitution, whether you like it or not. And whether you share those vales or not (I don't necessarily do in all the cases) that's the law and you should be ready to deal with them.

I'm not totally sure of your sorting idea. If someone asked me for my politics orientation in a job interview, I would react quite the same as someone asking me for my sex orientation or anything else that's private. Nothing binds me to answer truthfully. And you will get sued into oblivion for discrimination.
 

Guillo

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citygirl said:
Guillo - personal argument aside between you and Jared - let me assure you that no client would agree to a huge increase in price just because of inflation in Argentina. Outsourcing is done because there is a cost benefit.
You need to learn to negotiate. Do I need to explain this? I'm sure not all of what the customer pays goes to the salary of the employee. A 5 % raise in costs to the customer could easily pay for a 30% inflation cost and performance.

Additionally, the vast majority of my clients have had salary freezes, travel restrictions, etc. If they don't give their own internal employees raises, they certainly are not going to give an outsourced provider a huge increase because my costs in Argentina have increased. That's not the way it works.
I find really odd that they had salary freezes. I know of NO COMPANY, that haven't given something, unless they are receiving US Salaries or in the high end of the salaries spectrum, then the case would be totally different.

Again - it is what it is. We will not put new projects here and if costs continue to increase, we'll simply look at another hub for our LATAM business.
And that makes total sense. Too bad you cant handle inflation, for what I've read you are the kind of employer worth having around.


Again, from a personal note, that would sadden me as this is my home and I want to contribute. But if it becomes cost-prohibitive for our business, we'll look at one of the many other more stable options. FWIW - I oversee projects in lots of other countries and Argentina is by far our most expensive. It costs me less to do business in Europe than it does here.
It makes sense to place your operations wherever they are profitable for you. But you need to understand that, the same way you have your interests and goals, so do the workers and also have expectation that you need to fulfill if you want continue to employ them. If you got this reaction for a 20%, guess what you would have received for a 0 %.
 

jaredwb

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Guillo said:
Buddy, if you are totally clueless please don't post. I'm talking first person experience, you haven't made business in buenos aires....ever? Or for a couple tens of years?
First, if this is your first person experience, please let us know what company you work for so we NEVER hire employees from that company.

2nd, I've opened, managed, and operated companies in Argentina, Uruguay, Spain, Singapore, and the United States so I venture I have WAY more experience than you...so please don't compare your "first person experience" with REAL experience.

In fact, I have opened 3 companies in Buenos Aires and managed 300 employees here...guess what...ALL outsourced to companies outside of the U.S. SO, I know FIRST HAND what I am speaking about. I highly doubt that you do.

Also, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE explain how a 5% increase to my customers would pay for a 30% increase in compensation to my employees...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!

And on a completely separate note, considering you are the standard and norm among the Argentina "workers", no wonder this country is such a financial disaster.

Anyway, enough said...I'm going to go back to making a shit-load of money and screwing over all my employees...PEACE OUT!
 

Guillo

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jaredwb said:
First, if this is your first person experience, please let us know what company you work for so we NEVER hire employees from that company.
lol you are funny.

so please don't compare your "first person experience" with REAL experience.
In my case, I saw first hand how several companies, including a multinational one, using services of outsourced IT resources, arranged for an update to resource cost to cover for raises for the resources themselves, that had to be documented and verified by the resource. How specific is that for you? I wont give company names, and I really don't care if you believe me or not.

I highly doubt that you do.
Yeah I dont know anything
Btw, here's an article on the last time that the customer was consider co-responsible for the outsourced employee: http://legales.iprofesional.com/notas/111664-El-telemarketing-es-para-la-Justicia-tarea-esencial-y-ahora-condena-a-Petrobras-a-indemnizar-a-empleada
And its rather the norm in lawsuits down there.
I'm sure that doesn't happen in Singapore.

Also, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE explain how a 5% increase to my customers would pay for a 30% increase in compensation to my employees...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!
Of that remark, I should guess that you have never worked on outsourcing.
I'll explain how deal goes: you collect 100 from the customer. You pay under 30 to the worker. You just lower your margin. Or perhaps share the weight of the raise with the customer.
I've seen that the ratio in several companies where I worked for IT.

And on a completely separate note, considering you are the standard and norm among the Argentina "workers", no wonder this country is such a financial disaster.
But we do make some helluva choripanes. I must guess that's the reason you still stick around :)

Anyway, enough said...I'm going to go back to making a shit-load of money and screwing over all my employees...PEACE OUT!
Well, money for choripanes must come from somewhere!
 

cabrera

Registered
jaredwb said:
First, if this is your first person experience, please let us know what company you work for so we NEVER hire employees from that company.

2nd, I've opened, managed, and operated companies in Argentina, Uruguay, Spain, Singapore, and the United States so I venture I have WAY more experience than you...so please don't compare your "first person experience" with REAL experience.

In fact, I have opened 3 companies in Buenos Aires and managed 300 employees here...guess what...ALL outsourced to companies outside of the U.S. SO, I know FIRST HAND what I am speaking about. I highly doubt that you do.

Also, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE explain how a 5% increase to my customers would pay for a 30% increase in compensation to my employees...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!

And on a completely separate note, considering you are the standard and norm among the Argentina "workers", no wonder this country is such a financial disaster.

Anyway, enough said...I'm going to go back to making a shit-load of money and screwing over all my employees...PEACE OUT!

You need to chill dude . I recommend you a large consolador made in Argentina;)
 
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