Work and Salary Expectations

[jaredwb]

lol you are funny.


In my case, I saw first hand how several companies, including a multinational one, using services of outsourced IT resources, arranged for an update to resource cost to cover for raises for the resources themselves, that had to be documented and verified by the resource. How specific is that for you? I wont give company names, and I really don't care if you believe me or not.



Yeah I dont know anything
Btw, here's an article on the last time that the customer was consider co-responsible for the outsourced employee: http://legales.iprofesional.com/not...a-condena-a-Petrobras-a-indemnizar-a-empleada
And its rather the norm in lawsuits down there.
I'm sure that doesn't happen in Singapore.


Of that remark, I should guess that you have never worked on outsourcing.
I'll explain how deal goes: you collect 100 from the customer. You pay under 30 to the worker. You just lower your margin. Or perhaps share the weight of the raise with the customer.
I've seen that the ratio in several companies where I worked for IT.



But we do make some helluva choripanes. I must guess that's the reason you still stick around



Well, money for choripanes must come from somewhere!

As mentioned before, the choripanes are a big plus for me . Che, regardless of our differences...I bet over a few drinks and chori's, we'd get along great. I'm a die hard capitalist and I know that isn't popular in Argentina and not much on this site either...still, regardless of how passionate I am about my ideals, I appreciate that others have different ones.

Un abrazo fuerte y espero que nos vemos en algun momento!

 

[jaredwb]

You need to chill dude . I recommend you a large consolador made in Argentina

Cabrera!! Where you been? Haven't seen much from you lately! Hope all is well in lala land

 

[fifs2]

Yeah I dont know anything
Btw, here's an article on the last time that the customer was consider co-responsible for the outsourced employee: http://legales.iprofesional.com/not...a-condena-a-Petrobras-a-indemnizar-a-empleada
And its rather the norm in lawsuits down there.
I'm sure that doesn't happen in Singapore.


You quote a lawsuit (how very Argentinean) to demonstrate shared responsibility..please! Having worked in IT outsourcing for years I am shocked to hear of outsourced IT staff suing their placement companies (IBM etc) without any conscience...its the usual short termism mentality...dont they know the concept "Dont burn your bridges"..its beneath these educated people ahd the country to behave in such a pathetic litigious manner...

 

[jrockstar80]

Right. A raise that kept up with the inflation rate of 3%. Remember that in Argentina, we're talking about inflation rates of 30%. It's another whole galaxy.

this is what i don't understand. i'm not sure why a company can afford a 3% raise on a $40,000 annual salary in the US, and can't afford a 30% raise on a $9,000 annual salary in Argentina (by the way - those are actual salaries for very similar work in the US and argentina)

3% of $40,000 is $1,200. 30% of $9,000 is $2,700. is that $1,500 really breaking a company? even after these raises, a company is still saving $29,500 by outsourcing this employee... it seems like people are like OMG 30% WE CAN'T PAY THAT ON PRINCIPLE but 30% of bupkis is pretty affordable, no?

and if the business model isn't outsourcing, but sales in argentina... i don't see why prices can't be raised 30% to match inflation... it's messed up but it's what everyone else is doing.

 

[jaredwb]

this is what i don't understand. i'm not sure why a company can afford a 3% raise on a $40,000 annual salary in the US, and can't afford a 30% raise on a $9,000 annual salary in Argentina (by the way - those are actual salaries for very similar work in the US and argentina... just take my word on that one )

3% of $40,000 is $1,200. 30% of $9,000 is $2,700. is that $1,500 really breaking a company? even after these raises, a company is still saving $29,500 by outsourcing this employee... it seems like people are like OMG 30% WE CAN'T PAY THAT ON PRINCIPLE but 30% of bupkis is pretty affordable, no?

and if the business model isn't outsourcing, but sales in argentina... i don't see why prices can't be raised 30% to match inflation... it's messed up but it's what everyone else is doing.

Seriously??? Nice math..but you forget the company has a little something called overhead. Insurance, utilities, rent, and all the taxes which include being taxed for giving YOU a job. So that 1500 is really more like 300. It has nothing to do with principle.

 

[jrockstar80]

Seriously??? Nice math..but you forget the company has a little something called overhead. Insurance, utilities, rent, and all the taxes which include being taxed for giving YOU a job. So that 1500 is really more like 300. It has nothing to do with principle.

thanks for the compliment on the math but i don't get yours... that 1500 extra the company is paying is really 300 because the company has overhead? did you mean 3000? and 3000's the dealbreaker but 1500 isn't?

 

[jaredwb]

thanks for the compliment on the math but i don't get yours... that 1500 extra the company is paying is really 300 because the company has overhead? did you mean 3000? and 3000's the dealbreaker but 1500 isn't?

1500, 2700, 3000...doesn't make a difference. Point is that everytime the "workers" cry about raises you happily forget that the employers have other costs aside from your salary. Is the payroll tax in Argentina still 40%?? Basically an employer has to pay your salary PLUS 40% more to the Government. Add rent, insurance, etc etc...you get the picture????

 

[jrockstar80]

1500, 2700, 3000...doesn't make a difference. Point is that everytime the "workers" cry about raises you happily forget that the employers have other costs aside from your salary. Is the payroll tax in Argentina still 40%?? Basically an employer has to pay your salary PLUS 40% more to the Government. Add rent, insurance, etc etc...you get the picture????

i'm sorry, but i don't buy it. what's the cost of employee benefits in the US, like 30% of salary? what is it in argentina, 100%? overall, that employee's still got to be cheaper because the base salary is so much lower.

rent and insurance HAVE to be cheaper in argentina than in the US, especially insurance, for god's sake, where the US is the land of $60,000 hospital visits... what overhead items are more expensive in argentina?

one argument i find persuasive is that the overhead in argentina actually requires MORE EMPLOYEES, and therefore significantly more expense, because there is so much red tape. i would not be surprise to hear that businesses here have employees that are devoted just to running around town all day haciendo tramites. especially if small businesses aren't given a break on the tramites, i could easily see how that could be totally nuts.

i'm amused by the image of workers 'crying' about raises.

 

[jb5]

What you need to understand is that US and European companies hire the outsource companies because they can do the job cheaper than they could do it in their home countries themselves. The outsource companies can bid low because they have lower labor and overhead costs. If these costs go up the outsource company's business model is no longer viable.

There would be zero sense to be in Argentina going through the crazy regulations, choking unions and sky high taxes if the cost was anywhere what it is in the states or Western Europe.

Realize the Argentine government has active delegations going abroad to sell their low cost, high quality labor force. Companies are not going abroad because they like the weather, they are looking for countries where their business models are viable when they would not be in the states.

This does not involve billing their US customers US prices and pocketing the difference. This is about lowering the cost to the US companies so they they will give your company work rather than doing it themselves. This help those companies stay in business during tough times by lowering labor costs.

 

[jrockstar80]

yeah from the perspective of the outsourcing company i see it now - a 30% rise in your labor costs does seem difficult to pass on to your customers every year... i was just looking at it before from the perspective of the outsourcing client for whom the services are still a serious bargain.