Work and Salary Expectations

[Staszekfc]

Interesting discussion.

In order to put the discussed percentages in perspective, can somebody tell me what are the average (gross) salaries for a: warehouse worker, receptionist, sales manager and sales director?

 

[AngelinBA]

As an expat employee working with mostly locals, I have learned some interesting things about their beliefs on salaries etc. Firstly, some new words for my vocabulary, Derechos Adquiridos. This means if you give a bonus two years in a row, it becomes a right for the employee to receive the same if not bigger bonus every year after that.
Also, there is a sense that if you give a 20% pay rise one year that is then their entitlement, to expect a 20% rise every year and if you don´t give over that, then really you´re only giving them ´what was theirs´anyway (hence, no thank you). Last year when my home government was telling their employees they should consider themselves lucky to still have a job so don´t even think of talking pay rise, my workmates were disappointed when they only received a 15% increase. While I was also asking for more than 15% to cover inflation costs, I was much more realistic in my expectations of what we´d be given and indeed, 15% seemed very generous considering the amount of people being laid off back in NZ. Sorry, nothing helpful, just thought I´d throw in my 2 cents.

 

[perry]

I feel your pain and understand your position. You shoulder the risk and worry, they show up on time and expect a 40% salary increase. Which in Argentina costs you closer to 65%-70% +. Which means that next years 40% will blow the lid off of 120% in a 13.5 month span. I'm not sure about you but I have never received a raise based on inflation [way back when I was an employee], or a bonus for punching the clock. Productivity merits increases, breathing and taking up space does not.
Further, employees who don't have the common courtesy to simply thank an employer for recognizing their effort are ingrates and have the mind set that is typical here for the adversarial employer/employee relationship that exists. Adding that relationship to the government's adversarial attitude regarding businesses and you have a nearly imposable situation.
OK, sorry for the rant. But I think you need to sit down with yourself and examine your true motivations for doing business in a hostile environment. You may find that your personal goals are out of sync with corporate goal and with long term reality projections.
This process was very painful for me after 8 years or so but the situation demanded that the business model needed radical change. And that's what it got and that's what you get paid to do. Feel the pain.

I agree with you Ghost on this . I believe that employees in Argentina have the wrong attidude towards people in management and their employers.

Most people are willing to reward hard working , productive staff but when it comes with a feeling of entitlement and resentment it becomes too much and then that business is no longer.

 

[evan]

Although some have mentioned this, I think the main thing is just inflation. If you gave me a 25% raise here, I'd just assume that you were trying to give me a raise to cover the 30% inflation. I wouldn't feel like I needed to out of my way to thank you -- in fact, I'd probably be looking for another job.

 

[jaredwb]

I have to completely agree with Guillo on this one.
I am an employee here (in an Argentine company with some international clients) and haven't had a pay rise for over a year. About 18 months ago, I got a 10% increase - effectively meaning that what I earn is worth about 50% less than 2 years ago.
I do understand that most companies are completely unable to give annual raises in accordance with inflation (let alone bring performance into the mix) and it does leave employees, however well-treated, feeling somewhat embittered. I think a big part of the problem (for me, at least) is seeing other companies (usually bigger, multi-nationals) give employees higher raises or seeing union protected employees get raises. It makes you feel like you should just ditch your current job and go and work for one of those places. I mean, "if they're getting 30% raises in (wherever), why aren't I?" For me, I feel particularly bad when I see my boss increase his own fees and not pass that down the ladder a bit (though I am sure it is more complex then that) or hire temporary freelancers on good rates.
Having said that, I do get good benefits at work - homeworking, flexible hours, understanding when it comes to time off, etc...all of which help. I think any further perks (gym membership or employee discounts) would actually make it worse ("Just give me the money, dammit).
I think the best thing that you can do is be understanding and patient...the situation sucks for everyone atm. Perhaps offer more training opportunities or a chance to work-shadow people higher up the ladder. That way, you feel like you're "going somewhere" even if your salary isn't. At the moment, that's pretty much the only thing keeping me in my job!

People tend to forget that everyone, including corporations and especially small businesses suffer from inflation. If I, as a company, have to pay 25% more for goods and services to maintain the company how am I supposed to give 25% raises every year to all the employees?? We'd ALL be out of business in a couple years.

Unions are another reason YOU don't get raises. When companies are forced to increase wages and benefits for lazy workers, and yes, MOST union workers aren't worth their weight in crap...lower output (union workers) and higher cost (union workers) forces companies to increase prices to the consumer and businesses that purchase goods or services from that company. Again costs go up for the small businesses...no 25% yearly raises...or 5% or 10%.

And yes, while a very few Sr Managers may give themselves raises, the LARGE majority are experiencing similar problems and doing everything they can to cut costs so you can keep your job.

 

[jaredwb]

The capitalist should thank his workers for making him earn money without doing nothing, other than pay an advance to them to make him earn money.

Generally wages are crap compared to what the capitalist and upper management earns, and no secrecy arrrangements can hide this fact from the employees. They know how much they work, and they know how much the boys upstairs do, and how much they DON´T work.

So probably the workers don´t feel like saying thank you for the meagre champagne drips that get to them after the party has finished.

And yes, I think I will rob a bank before working for a corporation again. Sometimes burning bridges to office hell is the only way to maintain your sanity.

Dude are you for real? Your "anti-capitalism" rant is so boring. Without "the capitalists" there would be no businesses, large or small. The reason you don't work for a corporation is because your attitude sucks and nobody would hire you because you aren't an innovator, you don't go the extra mile, you don't work late or come in early. You sit on your ass doing the absolute minimum so as to stay off the radar and then go home and complain and cry because you aren't getting a raise?? PATHETIC.

The boy's upstairs work more than you could fathom. While you're smoking the PACO they are having calls at 3am with someone in Asia. They are working on weekends. They are doing everything they can so the company has money to pay your sorry ass.

Robbing a bank would be a step-up from the purses and cell phones you've been stealing lately...maybe it is a good career move.

 

[jb5]

So what is the bottom line? We have employers and employees weighing in. No one has moved beyond the politically correct.

So citygirl tells us her company is passing over Baires for new projects. And others are saying their fellow employees will look for new jobs if they don't get big raises.

Global companies can't give big raises, so does the average employee find a company that can? And what companies can in the current global economy? Where does it go from here? What company can possibly keep up with inflation and make everyone happy?

 

[elhombresinnombre]

What happened to all the worker-run businesses that appeared in response to 2001/2002 when companies had failed and the workers took over the buildings they had been in and continued to run them? Are many still going concerns? Are there other cooperatively-run businesses people know about? I feel it would inform this discussion to learn what sort of decisions are being made about price hikes and wage rises in organisations where the people who work there are collectively responsible - both for their own immediate standard of living and the long term survival and growth of the company.

 

[Guillo]

Do employees really believe they can get inflation based raises and companies will remain in business? Surely there is much written about this that should result in an understanding that many would be without jobs if employers were to keep up with Argentina's crazy inflation.

As workers, yes we do. Your business model, how you make your cash, and whether it makes business sense to the company is not the deal of the employee. Argentina has always had good level of professionals, with a knack for adapting to rapidly changing scenarios, and a culture that's highly compatible with the US. If you want that, you have to make us happy .
The workers are not your partners, they are your employees. They wont have a share of earnings, why would they work for cheap, under market value or finance your business by having salary increases below inflation? I bet that when they were grossly cheap compared to the US or other parts of the world, the company was totally happy to pay according to local costs.

 

[Guillo]

People tend to forget that everyone, including corporations and especially small businesses suffer from inflation. If I, as a company, have to pay 25% more for goods and services to maintain the company how am I supposed to give 25% raises every year to all the employees?? We'd ALL be out of business in a couple years.

I dont like the adversarial relationship between employer and employee, but the deal is.... its not the employee deal that it makes business sense for you. I wont sacrifice my salary level so you can have better operating balance to report to your home company. I work for my company to get a paycheck, and maximizing that is what will most likely keep me interested.
Of course there are other things that keep me in my job. Relaxed workplace is nice. Nice projects are interesting. Growth potential is also interesting. But all of that is only second to having a good paycheck and an updated salary.