Work and Salary Expectations

[Guillo]

It's shocking that workers don't get that precious few employers can give inflation based raises and stay in business. If they don't get this salaries will not going down as businesses close and unemployment grows.

Even the US unions have gotten that they must share the pain.

Perhaps...but even at times of extraordinary earnings, the employee wont get much better. So, employees are supposed to be understanding when business is bad...but when business is good or excellent, rewards wont come their way either.

 

[jaredwb]

People expect their salaries to at least track inflation. Receiving a 25% raise isn't cause for celebration when inflation is estimated to be around 30%, its a bitter acknowledgement that you are at best, being paid as much as you were last year.

In what realistic World is that expected by the workers?? Salaries are NOT based on Inflation nor should they track or follow inflation.

If you have a problem because of inflation, try voting for someone that actually supports businesses and growth as opposed to CFK who is a lying, manipulative (thought useless without Nestor) business and job killer.

What was the latest INDEC statistics for last year???? What a joke!

 

[jaredwb]

Perhaps...but even at times of extraordinary earnings, the employee wont get much better. So, employees are supposed to be understanding when business is bad...but when business is good or excellent, rewards wont come their way either.

Your statement is completely wrong. EVERY major company and I would venture that most SMB's gives bonuses based on company performance. If the company does well, the top workers and performers (again, not the lazy "just here for a paycheck" workers) are rewarded.

Maybe stop worrying so much about the "paycheck" and figure out a way you can improve the company and help them do better (even during the hard times). I guarantee it will come back to you in more ways than one.

 

[citygirl]

well Guillo.. I don't know if you have ever worked outside of Argentina but trust me when I say that employees here have a VERY sweet deal and more protection than almost any other country. In good times and in bad And also FWIW, a good employer will try to take care of his or her employees when times are good.

And JP - I understand the simple argument that a 25% raise is just keeping track with inflation. But my point is that for most of us employers, it's not like we're turning around and charging our customers 25% more. So we're caught between a rock and a hard place. I have employees wanting 25% more. I have my suppliers increasing their fees. I have the government charging me every which way until Tuesday. And I am confronted with a worldwide economy that is in trouble and where my clients are actively looking to cut costs, certainly not pay me more.

At some point, for many of us I think, the well will run dry. There simply isn't that much money to be handing it out left, right and center. That's the harsh reality many of us are facing and there is no easy answer.

 

[Guillo]

Your statement is completely wrong. EVERY major company and I would venture that most SMB's gives bonuses based on company performance. If the company does well, the top workers and performers (again, not the lazy "just here for a paycheck" workers) are rewarded.

Maybe stop worrying so much about the "paycheck" and figure out a way you can improve the company and help them do better (even during the hard times). I guarantee it will come back to you in more ways than one.

First of all, please don't assume I'm working JUST for the paycheck, because you are totally wrong and your tone reads kind of insulting. I do care about the money I make, because regrettably work is my only source of income and that's the case with most of the people you will have working for you.

Second, I don't know which ventures you had, and where, but here is really an exception to give rewards to the workforce if the company does above expectations, specially SMB. Perhaps for some levels of management they do, or people working on commision, but its not the standard by any means for all the workforce.

And third, people wont stop worrying about their paycheck because that's all they have. Its not like they are making money investing in businesses, you have to remember that employees are people too, and have needs, doesn't matter what YOUR needs are. Your goals are not automatically my goals just because you want them to be, YOU have to make me want pursue your goals and make it worth. People wont stupidly work 80 hour weeks to push a business unless they have something to make it worth it, either overtime, stock options, or some kind of rewards in the end. It just doesn't work like that.

 

[kiara]

Please don't take the fact that your employees have not thanked you for their salary increase personal. It's just a cultural bias made up by two factors: 1) argentians have previous experience of high inflation rates and seeing their salaries depreciated always running behing and 2) culturally, thanking a manager for a salary increase would be considered an attitude of a bootlicker.
Last but not least, don't forget that private companies are trigerring salary increases by increasing the prices for their goods. It's a never ending story when economic policy aims to improve income distribution.

 

[jaredwb]

First of all, please don't assume I'm working JUST for the paycheck, because you are totally wrong and your tone reads kind of insulting. I do care about the money I make, because regrettably work is my only source of income and that's the case with most of the people you will have working for you.

Second, I don't know which ventures you had, and where, but here is really an exception to give rewards to the workforce if the company does above expectations, specially SMB. Perhaps for some levels of management they do, or people working on commision, but its not the standard by any means for all the workforce.

And third, people wont stop worrying about their paycheck because that's all they have. Its not like they are making money investing in businesses, you have to remember that employees are people too, and have needs, doesn't matter what YOUR needs are. Your goals are not automatically my goals just because you want them to be, YOU have to make me want pursue your goals and make it worth. People wont stupidly work 80 hour weeks to push a business unless they have something to make it worth it, either overtime, stock options, or some kind of rewards in the end. It just doesn't work like that.

Not trying to be insulting but every comment you have made leads us to believe that you are just in it for the paycheck and complaining because the company isn't giving you more...why should they? Again, I don't know what you do for a living or who you work for, but all I read is the typical Argentina employee complaining about not getting more money but not doing anything to EARN it.

You are correct to assume that ALL of my ventures are outside of this country as I would NEVER do actual business in Argentina (again). As citygirl said, you are sucked dry by the Government, the Unions, and the employees that once hired can sit back and do nothing cause if you fire them for being useless they sue the company or you have to pay them outrageous amounts of money. But I agree if the company does well then the employees should get a bonus...not necessarily a pay increase (that is based on INDIVIDUAL performance).

Do you work 80 hours per week? You know who does work 80 hours per week?? The business owners. And if you work for a company, the company goals SHOULD be your goals. If you came to the table with that mentality, you would contribute more because you would want to help attain the business goals. You would then get raises to help you with your personal goals, and you would then excel both personally and professionally. Win/Win for you and the company

 

[Guillo]

well Guillo.. I don't know if you have ever worked outside of Argentina but trust me when I say that employees here have a VERY sweet deal and more protection than almost any other country. In good times and in bad And also FWIW, a good employer will try to take care of his or her employees when times are good.

I know we have a sweet deal in some aspects. But, how much more would you pay for someone with the same qualifications and experience in the US? 3X? 5X?

Perhaps I'm sending an "anti company pro union" vibe on my messages, but that's not the case. I'm not a mercenary that will jump boats at the first opportunity for a bit more cash. I'm not the type that will do the minimum required, I like being proud of my work. And I hate unions. I've never been an "unionized worker" in all my life. But I do expect to keep my status quo, and to make more than the doorman in my building does if I'm a experienced professional.

To expect to have employees pushing for a company, specially a multinational one, even when they feel they are being neglected money wise.... or like jaredwb said "stop worrying about your paycheck and worry about making the company better", is a bit unrealistic.

 

[Guillo]

Not trying to be insulting but every comment you have made leads us to believe that you are just in it for the paycheck and complaining because the company isn't giving you more...why should they? Again, I don't know what you do for a living or who you work for, but all I read is the typical Argentina employee complaining about not getting more money but not doing anything to EARN it.

I was trying to help you understand the point of view of the employee, because that's what the thread was about. How to make them happy. Its not about ideal, alien employees beings beamed down from the space. Its people, working to live and make ends meet.

You are correct to assume that ALL of my ventures are outside of this country as I would NEVER do actual business in Argentina (again). As citygirl said, you are sucked dry by the Government, the Unions, and the employees that once hired can sit back and do nothing cause if you fire them for being useless they sue the company or you have to pay them outrageous amounts of money. But I agree if the company does well then the employees should get a bonus...not necessarily a pay increase (that is based on INDIVIDUAL performance).

Well, that explains a lot. You were talking about companies in other countries. That paid better to their employees and have better rewards for their effort.

Also, I'm far from backing the current government. But if you decide to make business here, you have to adapt, and specially you have to respect the local laws if you dont want to be sued. This means, nothing in negro, and respect all the rights the employees are supposed to have. And nothing in life is free, that cheap labor will come with a lot of strings attached.

I dont know why you talk about outrageus amount of money. If you do everything by the books, if you fire someone during the first 6 months you dont have to pay "Indemnisación". After that, is 1 month salary for every year worked, which is not much. How long do you need to figure out a employee is useless?

And besides...wouldn't you pay much much more in the US if you got sued for not following the law?

Do you work 80 hours per week? You know who does work 80 hours per week?? The business owners.

Not quite. I've worked in several projects that got into forced marchs with over 80 hours per week to hit deadlines. And several expected the team to work for no additional reward, just because it was better for business. Classical phrase: "Es lo que hay".

And if you work for a company, the company goals SHOULD be your goals.

Its not that simple, unless you also own the company.

If you came to the table with that mentality, you would contribute more because you would want to help attain the business goals. You would then get raises to help you with your personal goals, and you would then excel both personally and professionally. Win/Win for you and the company

An employee is NOT the same as a partner. Of course I want to attain business goals for the company, but that wont take higher priority than my personal goals, which includes having a good salary.

 

[jb5]

Jared hit the nail on the head. Instead of expecting employers to keep salaries in pace with inflation, which is simply impossible in Argentina, vote for a government that is pro business and that keeps inflation under control.

Yes Guillo, employers would pay much more to workers in the US doing your job. That's why they are doing these jobs in countries with lower wages, they could not do them in the US and make a profit. So they go to countries like AR and create jobs because their business model works there. When it no longer works in AR they will move on to a country where it will work. It's really that simple.

These companies are not trying to rip off their employees. My companies and most I know have always shared the wealth when times were good. Inflation impacts companies in the same way it impacts people. Times of runaway inflation are the exact time companies can not afford to pay more.

It would surprise me greatly if an employee I can't give a raise to can hop to a similar company and get the salary they seek. A few might get lucky, but the big picture is that if my company is hard hit others are too. Multinationals will be the first to go, they don't need any one country. And smaller companies faced with the attitude you express will pack up and find a less hostile environment where they can remain viable in a global downturn.

The real issue I'm seeing here is that the realities of businesses remaining viable seems elusive to many Argentines. It's understandable given the highly unusual employment guarantees. These have kept many employers out of AR already, which partially explains the relatively low wages.

The way to increase wages is to get more businesses to set up shop in the country. The government and prevailing attitudes chase them away. It's a vicious cycle that need to be broken.