World Politics & Argentineans

[arlean]

I may be wrong but I don't see the Argentinians as patriotic. Does anyone else? In fact I have heard fun made of U.S. people for our patriotism. But I so agree about the media and how people's minds are shaped if we indulge in it. One of the most educational things I ever did was move to South America and I'm glad I did. It's been trying and disappointing in some ways, but also beneficial. I'm still trying to figure out the culture here though and how it all came about. I'm not doing a very good job of that! But I'll keep trying.

One of my beloved friends here tries to educate me and what he explains is SO INTERESTING. I say, "What books can I get to learn about this?" He says "There are no books, you won't find this in a book." So then I say, "Then why don't YOU write a book? I'll help you and I'll edit it for you." He says if he did he would never be able to live in Argentina again.

If this is accurate, then the truth is going to be difficult to know. Some of the political manipulations he describes are brilliant--and destructive.

Now, talking about thinkers as we were--this man is a thinker. Whether his conclusions are right or wrong, he collects information and puts it together to form conclusions. I think he's a good example.

 

[El Mayoman]

Ah true, it definitely depends who you compare it with. I've lived in Belgium, Germany and Sweden, and in all 3 of those countries it's pretty much frowned upon to be patriotic (in fact, the term is almost never used, choosing instead to use the more negatively loaded "nationalism"). Not including world cups or other major (sporting) events, you can't really openly show your colours or promote your country. A real shame in my opinion.

Is the friend you mentioned from Argentina? If not I could understand his reluctance - anything he writes would face relentless criticism based on the simple fact that he's a foreigner... Which is a shame, cause as you said it's such a learning experience to move abroad, and you learn a lot about both your own country and your 'new' country - this fresh perspective could definitely benefit both countries in the form of (for instance) intellectual debate!

 

[robwerwe]

Most people I talk to here don't seem to know mucho about Syria.

I think its clear that someone is paying the rebels to overthrow the government so they can put in place a proxy government.
Your very naive if you believe that they are going in to stand up for internal law or to protect civilians. I just wonder for how much longer they can pull the same trick.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

To quote Ambrose Bierce, from The Devil's Dictionary: “Patriotism, n. Combustible rubbish ready to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name. In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit it is the first.”

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

Some people give themselves a lot more credit than they deserve for being able to parrot the views of their favourite news network or preferred newspaper reading lists.

Humility seems to be a lost concept amongst a certain variety of ex-pats. I have a very limited knowledge of South American politics outside of Argentina, but should I feel proud and superior that my knowledge of the middle east is greater than the average Argentine? Similarly would I frown upon someone from Turkmenistan as the displayed their limited knowledge or the Irish conflict? What could I tell them about their region's history?

We're all products of the various media we consume and the education that we are fortunate enough to receive, unfortunately it very rarely teaches us perspective and humility as we pat ourselves on the back for our heightened understanding of the worldview we have acquired.

 

[Jaredberryman]

It's a waste of time to talk politics with K supporters. Like some suggested, this country has become polarized between Ks and not, just like in the US the hard right wing and hard left wing oppose each other. Right now, it seems like democracy in the Americas have taken this direction. I have met some really nice people that are K supporters, but they don't have much political knowledge in my humble opinion (or knowledge about the world). But the same could be said about a lot of my relatives. Anything you say against Argentina or its present ruling class will be viewed as imperialism or naivety. It's incredible how people here think that my views are naive. I have some friends who really hate the U.S. and think that everything bad that happens in Latin America is because of Britain and the US. I think that such extreme views are silly. However, on the other hand, a lot of Americans think Latin American countries are third world because they are stupid or primitive, and that the US government can do no wrong. This is also silly. My experience is that when you are world traveler, you tend to have a clearer picture of the way the world works, but there is no way to communicate these experiences to others. On the plus side, there are plenty of enlightened people out there that have a broader world view. You just can't share some things with others who haven't experienced it; they will just view it in the wrong way. Instead, you have to just try to gently influence them in a roundabout way.

 

[arlean]

Yes, my friend is born in Argentina of Argentine parents He really is knowledgeable and I take seriously what he tells me about Argentina's history and culture for that reason.

Hahahaha! I am laughing about humility. I have an ophthalmologist that I love. I just go for checkups (thankfully) and every time he sits and chats with me first for about an hour. I think he likes to practice his English but in any event, he's interesting. He loves to talk about opthalmology, goes to all kinds of ophthalmology conferences in the U.S. He told me "I like Americans but the thing I don't like about them is they are so PROUD!" I laughed out loud. I couldn't help it. I said "Now I heard everything -- an Argentine calling an American proud!" (Argentines are the proudest people in the world in case somebody here doesn't know it.) He laughed too and said, "Yes we are proud too but it's different. We are proud of what we accomplish; with Americans it's "The Country! The Flag!"

So there you have it. A bit of insight--from an Argentine!

 

[arlean]

Tex. I am laughing because you are SO RIGHT. I don't know why they consider Argentina Third World. I can't see how it's any more Third World than the U.S. (now don't be afraid to straighten me out on that but that's an honest statement). And now true confessions. When my son wanted me to come here I thought he's out of his mind. Why would I do that. My mental image of South America was bamboo houses with dirt floors (a la Belize perhaps). Now I know some of you are laughing and you're entitled. But that's how limited people can be that never left their native land.

But that isn't all. I've described what I thought to others who have said, "I know, I thought that too!"

 

[ajoknoblauch]

It's a waste of time to talk politics with K supporters. Like some suggested, this country has become polarized between Ks and not, just like in the US the hard right wing and hard left wing oppose each other. Right now, it seems like democracy in the Americas have taken this direction. I have met some really nice people that are K supporters, but they don't have much political knowledge in my humble opinion (or knowledge about the world). But the same could be said about a lot of my relatives. Anything you say against Argentina or its present ruling class will be viewed as imperialism or naivety. It's incredible how people here think that my views are naive. I have some friends who really hate the U.S. and think that everything bad that happens in Latin America is because of Britain and the US. I think that such extreme views are silly. However, on the other hand, a lot of Americans think Latin American countries are third world because they are stupid or primitive, and that the US government can do no wrong. This is also silly. My experience is that when you are world traveler, you tend to have a clearer picture of the way the world works, but there is no way to communicate these experiences to others. On the plus side, there are plenty of enlightened people out there that have a broader world view. You just can't share some things with others who haven't experienced it; they will just view it in the wrong way. Instead, you have to just try to gently influence them in a roundabout way.

There is no hard left wing in the United States, but there is a truly dangerous lunatic fringe of right-wingers.

 

[internationalguy]

There is no hard left wing in the United States, but there is a truly dangerous lunatic fringe of right-wingers.

http://ninetymilesfromtyranny.blogspot.com.ar/2013/04/two-extreme-leftists-trying-to-destroy.html

In all honesty Obama can't even be placed left or right because of the fact that he acts left (in some ways) and speaks lies in leftist language, yet his actions are very ambiguous. On top of that he's authoritarian and smug.