Affordable Dolce Vita in Buenos Aires?

[John.St]

I just made a calculation on dentists.

My excellent dentist in Argentina has a clinic almost identical to that of my dentist in Europe (exactly the same equipment and space), the greatest difference is that here are two palm trees outside the window and in Europe there are cartoons in the ceiling.

If my Argentino dentist is to make the same as I know for at fact my European dentist is earning (we've been friends for some 20 years), he must work non-stop 13.73 hours per day 365 days per year.

In Argentina, when I have my teeth cleaned, I pay AR$ 90, at home the price is AR$ 433.

 

[dani28]

Well, in Spain, the ¨mileurista¨ (1000 euro/month salary) epidemic among young professionals (and I am talking about new lawyers and other somewhat desirable office type jobs--and again, those who are able to FIND work in the first place--unemployment in Spain is still in the mid 20 percent range) is huge, even in cities like Madrid or Barcelona, where the cost of living is starting to become just as expensive as cities where the basic wages are three times as high (IE: france or germany)
Based on what I have heard from other Spanish nationals who are now working in Argentina, salaries there are either feast or famine depending on what you do and what company you are working for without there being a particular rhyme or reason or general consensus, with some positions in companies that are more global paying more international scale salaries, and that even if it is the same, or even less, than what they earned in Madrid, their ways of living are substantially higher than what it was in Spain so while your Argentine dentist might make less than what your dentist in Europe makes, he probably is able to afford himself a somewhat higher quality of life on what he makes (more bang for the buck) than he would in Europe, where the cost of living is substantially higher.

 

[John.St]

Yeah, right.

Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland happens to be in deep crisis so salaries have been reduced.

In Germany you can't get an engineer fresh from university at less than 48,000 Euro (U$S 69,000) a year, same in Scandinavia and France. The salaries are much higher as are the cost of living, but not that much edit: (i.e. cost of living)edit.

I also happen to know that a good salary for a production engineer with 9-10 years experience and working for a foreign company in Argentina (his pay slip was lying on his table one day I visited him) is around U$S 1,800/month.

 

[jb5]

The quality of life issue is not a clear cut one. I think well paid professionals, the kind making dollars or Euro in AR, don't have a higher quality of life unless they make enough to insulate them from all of the third world inconveniences.

 

[2GuysInPM]

This other site cuantocobro.com also has job comparisons and salaries for various countries. People get to post their job and their current pay (anonymously) and others vote whether it's good pay or not. Here's their job graph for Argentina in Euros (monthly): http://www.cuantocobro.com/informe-sueldos.php?informe=rubro&pais=argentina&moneda=EUR&x=26&y=14

 

[John.St]

This other site cuantocobro.com also has job comparisons and salaries for various countries. People get to post their job and their current pay (anonymously) and others vote whether it's good pay or not. Here's their job graph for Argentina in Euros (monthly): http://www.cuantocobro.com/informe-sueldos.php?informe=rubro&pais=argentina&moneda=EUR&x=26&y=14

I see on this site that a person working in QA in Argentina makes exactly the same as the minimum wage at home (Euro 993 resp. 992.40/month) and the top notch "Comunicaciones externas" fit in with a supermarket cashier at home - great!

Or are the salaries in Argentina per week?

Try Alemania:
http://www.cuantocobro.com/informe-sueldos.php?informe=rubro&pais=alemania&moneda=EUR&x=23&y=15

 

[John.St]

The quality of life issue is not a clear cut one. ... to insulate them from all of the third world inconveniences.

Opinions differ. In my case it is exactly overcoming the "third world inconveniences" that makes it fun to live in Argentina - never a dull moment

 

[sergio]

An Argentine friend, very successful upper middle class professional, came back from Spain a few months ago ANGRY. I was surprised as he is always cheerful and optimistic. He said that Spain was cheaper than Argentina. Restaurants were cheaper, hotels were cheaper (let's not get into rack rates. If you are sensible and book ahead you can get amazing prices that are NEVER available in Argentina), even property was comparable in the best areas. He has even been thinking about retiring to Spain.

In addition to the comparative cost of things, I think you have to consider infrastructure. In Spain you have a first class rail system, a good public health system, and an overall 1st world infrastructure that is lacking in Argentina. You're also part of a forward moving European community that may be have had financial setbacks but it still has a good future-- and it is EUROPE with all its cultural and historical attractions, if that is important to you.

 

[dani28]

Sergio,

It really depends on where in Spain he visited and what frame of mind he went with. Large cities like Madrid and Barcelona are outrageously and unrealistically expensive nowadays because from a tourism stand-point they feel like they can and should be competitive to other major European capitals, not keeping in mind that in these other European capitals, the people earn considerably more, so this thought process ultimately affects the people that live and work there.
Also Spain is notorious for a very wide sliding scale when it comes to pricing on travel: (IE: I have stayed at a nice four star hotel in Costa del Sol (comparable to a Marriott resort hotel on a normal, nice beach by US standards), South of Spain, that in August charges 280 euros per night, and off season the rates can go for 39 euros per night for the same room. Airfares and train fares are similar, especially in markets where there is a monopoly IE: Iberia being the only major airline covering that route directly,etc)
Tourism-wise it is true that because Spain has suffered a lot in this sector and it is one of the primary industries and I would not be surprised to hear that he was able to snag some really good tourism-related deals (IE: hotel, transportation, etc) and thus came back thinking that his native country isnt so much higher in price than one where he has relocated to.

Anyway, enough about Spain and on to Argentina, I'm a firm believer in that you only regret what you do not do, so I will most likely be making the move down, however, I do appreciate hearing different people's opinions and perspectives and it is all food for thought, both the positives and the negatives.

I will also say this in relation to the salaries: Depending on what you are looking for, I find that it is really relative. In the US, we may make a lot more for example, but it would be futile to argue that there are some expenses that you will not incur living abroad that are fairly normal day to day things in the states, and thus the need to command such a high salary is not as important. In Argentina, basic health coverage (ok, now Im expecting a backlash on how the basic isnt good enough and everybody has private insurance) and a good education/university are free, these are 2 of the major things here in the States we pay and are encouraged to save up for. Also gym memberships and vehicles. If I can walk to 95% of the places I need to go to, I save myself from having to pay to go do excercise (this is in my case in particular) and it also saves me the price of the car, gas prices, and in large cities like Chicago, a parking garage spot downtown at around $250-$300/month.

 

[sergio]

Dani, you have made up your mind to try Argentina. I said that earlier. You can rationalize things any way you want. You will see for yourself.

A few comments: Health insurance. You will not find public care acceptable, believe me. I doubt that the Spanish public health system is great but it has to be far better than what you will find in Argentina. You'll need a private policy. If you have an employer you'll be covered. If not, you can get a reasonably priced policy due to your age. If you were older it would be expensive.

You won't need a car, true. You'll find that almost all professional Argentines have one, though and you might want one to get away from the city on weekends.

Prices Spain vs Argentina. I am just going by what my friend said. He is pretty sophisticated and travels all the time. I will have to ask again where the properties were however I recall his saying that Santander property was not that much more than he paid in a very good part of Barrio Norte. I have no idea how much property costs in Barcelona or Madrid compared to BA (comparing the better parts of these cities with the pricier parts of BA like Puerto Madero).

As for hotels, you will never find a bargain in Argentina. If you want to go to nice places you will always pay a premium. It's not like Europe or the US where there is an abundance of five star hotels and tremendous competition. Few people can pay such high prices and the market is very, very small. This applies to a lot of things. Basically a lot that you take for granted in the US, or even Europe, is a luxury item in Argentina and priced accordingly with no discounts. Last year I paid USD $170 for a seat at the Teatro Colon. This year I paid the same for a comparable seat at the Metropolitan Opera. I got a lot better quality at the Metropolitan Opera -- and needless to say, people earn a LOT more in the US so just keep this in mind: you have to lower standards and expectations in Argentina if you want to make a life.

You said that you won't buy electronics in Argentina. How can you avoid it? How will you equip your kitchen? Where will you get your TV? Everything else that you need for a home? You can't put them all in a suitcase.

I am not telling you NOT to come but I am saying be prepared. Your income is enough to live on but you won't find the fabulous life style you could have had a few years ago.