American Expatriation Guide

[citygirl]

If one doesn't want to pay taxes, I can only assume one doesn't want to drive on a road, cross a bridge, have your borders protected, mail a letter, receive social security or medicare, check animals for infectious diseases when they enter the country, have inspections for bridges or tunnels or roads, have the government assist towns or countries in the event of a natural disaster, have police protect you, have fireman put out a fire, have the coast guard assist you in you have a boating accident, have a military to protect you or any of the other myriad things that your tax dollars go towards.

Damn.. it might be worse being the feudal overlord than the serf All I have to do is pay my taxes, not any of the hard stuff

And Lee - I'm with you. Obviously i have the right (which I exercise) to advocate how my tax dollars are spent. And the right to vote (which I also exercise) to elect politicians who promise (and occasionally deliver) to advocate for the funds to be spent in a manner I believe.

Again, taxes, along with death are a certainty. I get bitching about them but the idea of renouncing my citizenship over them just blows my mind. How inherently selfish can one person be? Even if I am not currently utilizing the services, people I love - hell, just people - people just like you - are utilizing them.

 

[gouchobob]

I did some backtracking on the guide and found where it originated. It comes from a site call zero hedge .com

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/american-expatriation-guide

The site is run by a guy that calls himself Tyler Durden(not his real name), who is in reality a 30 year Bulgarian immigrant who has been banned from the securities industry for insider trading. It strikes me as funny as the guy posting this is actually an immigrant to the United States, I guess he is working both sides of the street. There was an article on him in the New York magazine worth reading(link below).

http://nymag.com/guides/money/2009/5945

 

[amat]

If someone is that upset about it, then obviously s/he has the choice to renounce US citizenship. No one is stopping anyone from doing so.

If not, then one pays the price. Sure it would be great if we didn't have to pay taxes when we're out of the country (although many countries tax their citizens on worldwide income and you do in fact get an exemption if your tax home is in another country up to 90K something - maybe 92K?) but as stated, if you want the rights and services afforded to a US Citizen, you have to pay the price.

Really quite simple. If you don't want to pay, renounce your citizenship. But if you think taxes are bad in the US - wait until you pay them here

Right, i'm not disgreeing with you at all that one pays the price and should do whatever the govt requirement is. I"m just lamenting the fact that the price is higher! For me, it's not worth renouncing citizenship, but I do agree it would suck to be someone working in a country like Singapore or somewhere where tax is low but cost of living is high, and having to pay additional tax to the US. Even with the threshold of $92k, for me it's the principle that bothers me.

Yes, most countries tax on worldwide income, but only when you live in the country. That's the difference I was pointing out.

And yes, taxes here are atrocious! Imagine if you were an Argentine living elsewhere and had to do the same. I bet there would be more renouncements in that situation, since so many people here have european passports as well.

 

[Choripán]

If you like being a serf, that's fine with me. It's your choice. I hope that your democratic society votes and agrees on taxing everyone who calls himself Choripán a special 100% income tax.

My god, do you even know what the word serf means? Seriously. You realize that the very fact that YOU LIVE IN BUENOS AIRES means that by definition YOU ARE NOT MEDIEVAL FARMWORKER INDENTURED TO WORK THE LAND OF A POLITICALLY SUPERIOR LORD IN THE UNITED STATES. It's not an effective metaphor - you have to be tied to a particular plot of land to be a serf. Find something else to your cheap-ass free-loading attitude. I would suggest loser. Seems like an apt description of you.

Nonsense. Only government employees are free loaders, because they get paid from my taxes for work I did not ask them to do.

So like when are you flew down here the government workers managing the flight control system so that your plane didn't crash are merely doing work that you didn't ask them to do? But you consume the service anyway. Presumably you like the fact that your plane didn't crash because someone was WORKING to keep the sky around you clear. Hmm.

I don't care. I am not a conservative.

Maybe your not a conservative but man you sure do sound like one. What I mean by this is that you evidently possess that special combination of selfishness and stupidity that defines the American conservative.

You really are quite a laughable joke.

So when you renouncing your citizenship? Or are you just a chickenshit complainer? Be sure to keep us here at BAExpats posted on the process. I will personally buy you a beer and make a toast in your honor the day you are no longer an American.

 

[Rad]

Choripan, you are a bit dense, but I will repeat what I already wrote here in this topic before - I am not a US citizen. I have two other citizenships and neither of those two countries forces me to pay taxes if I live in a third country. And that's how it should be.

All the other stuff you wrote just shows your ignorance:
First, a serf is simply someone who is forced to give part of his labor to the government. In today's societies, this is done through taxes. It does not matter that you think that those taxes are democratic.
Second, you talk about government employees as if they were doing some sort of magic. If you actually spent a little time thinking about your flight control system example, you would know that it is in the interest of the owner of the plane to do everything to make the flights as safe as possible. No airline will make money if it's planes keep crashing. And that is the same with everything else where you see government magic.
Third, you obviously don't know what is a conservative. I can tell you one thing - Hayek wasn't one. Neither am I.

Also, I mentioned it several times in the past that I don't live in BsAs. I visit BsAs every winter, go to the Mediterranean in the Summer and stay in Canada inbetween.

And last, the guide is not primarily about avoiding taxes. It is a guide for those who want to renounce their US citizenship, no matter their reasons. If it makes you upset, don't read it.

 

[mini]

I am not a US citizen.

So why do you care if it doesn't pertain to you?

Anyway, you don't need to read that silly white paper to renounce your citizenship. It's actually quite easy. Go to the embassy & tell them you want to renounce your citizenship. Done. You need to be a citizen of another country though*.

Next, rich people, which seems to be the focus of that white paper, usually know how to reduce their tax obligation. In general they pay a fraction in % terms then the "normal" people.

Finally, your tax obligation over the 90K exception is only the difference between what you paid to your country of residence & what you would owe in the US. So, if in the country you live in you are paying 40% tax & your obligation in the US is 39% then you owe nothing. If it's the reverse then you only owe the extra 1%.

 

[Rad]

So why do you care if it doesn't pertain to you?

I can talk about any topic I want. I posted it for those who are interested.

Anyway, you don't need to read that silly white paper to renounce your citizenship.

Sure, then don't.

It's actually quite easy. Go to the embassy & tell them you want to renounce your citizenship. Done. You need to be a citizen of another country though*.

Not true.

 

[mini]

I can talk about any topic I want. I posted it for those who are interested.

Of course you can talk about whatever you want. I wonder why you care. Anyone who wants to renounce their citizenship (of whatever country) will go find out how to do it. & they probably won't come to this forum.

Not true.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

 

[brandwach]

There is no coherent justification for state: It is nothing but force and agression. It flies in the face of natural law, based on property rights: starting with ownership of self, which are human rights.

If state is so great and it creats so much value, then fine,sure reasonable people would be drawn to this organization due to all the value that it creats. So, it would be an organization of free-association, but then it is not state, as essencially state is: a compulsory and violently enforced territorial monopoly on adjudication and taxation. Such an institution is, in all cases, morally and ethically bankrupt.

State just uses all the would be valid social roles like caring for the elderly, children, construction of the roads as a veil legitimacy. These functions can be carried out with leaving the compulsion factor out.

To initiate agression against the inocent is inhumane. To be a statist is shameful and confused

 

[mini]

There is no coherent justification for state: It is nothing but force and agression. It flies in the face of natural law, based on property rights: starting with ownership of self, which are human rights.

If state is so great and it creats so much value, then fine,sure reasonable people would be drawn to this organization due to all the value that it creats. So, it would be an organization of free-association, but then it is not state, as essencially state is: a compulsory and violently enforced territorial monopoly on adjudication and taxation. Such an institution is, in all cases, morally and ethically bankrupt.

State just uses all the would be valid social roles like caring for the elderly, children, construction of the roads as a veil legitimacy. These functions can be carried out with leaving the compulsion factor out.

To initiate agression against the inocent is inhumane. To be a statist is shameful and confused

So why would you go through the process of chaining yourself to an second state? I would think you'd rather be a stateless person than burden yourself with TWO citizenships.....