Andrew Graham-Yooll On A Decade Of Kirchnerism

[ajoknoblauch]

See http://tinyurl.com/q3j7xlk

 

[Matiasba]

I like this analysis from the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mundo/noticias/2013/05/130516_argentina_diez_k_vs.shtml

 

[ajoknoblauch]

I like this analysis from the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk...diez_k_vs.shtml

Essentially, then, she had a legitimate opportunity to unify the country and blew it big time.

 

[Matiasba]

yes, but when did this country was unified?

I like (an impartial) foreign newspaper recognises the advances made in human rights, employment, debt and poverty (almost nothing

 

[ajoknoblauch]

yes, but when did this country was unified?

I like (an impartial) foreign newspaper recognises the advances made in human rights, employment, debt and poverty (almost nothing

So it's indeed a wasted decade, then. The government's so-called human rights achievements were little compared to those of Alfonsín, who was taking serious risks; for the Kirchners, it was little more than gesture politics. By the way, if you think poverty is almost nothing, you should try to get out of Puerto Madero once in a while.

Graham-Yooll's insider view, coupled with his cosmopolitan perspective, is far more credible.

 

[Matiasba]

So it's indeed a wasted decade, then. The government's so-called human rights achievements were little compared to those of Alfonsín, who was taking serious risks; for the Kirchners, it was little more than gesture politics. By the way, if you think poverty is almost nothing, you should try to get out of Puerto Madero once in a while.

Graham-Yooll's insider view, coupled with his cosmopolitan perspective, is far more credible.

I was being ironic.

You re wrong about Alfonsin, during his government the militars of the junta were jugded (in 1985) but then he decreted Obediencia Debida y Punto Final laws.
The human rights here its not only about Videla et al being judged (this is the first government of four that have condenated the militars, dont forget about this), it refers to the making memory policies, like what they did to the Esma, decrete 24 th march holiday, give resources to abuelas de plaza de mayo, and a large etc.
Plus, issues like the gay marriage, sexual identity and other laws.

About poverty, there are defenitely improvements that I mentioned a lot of times on this forum, from not kirchneristas sources, as this time.
About debt, its pretty much obvious, the numbers are there, you can say what you want, but the numbers speak for itselves.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

I was being ironic.

You re wrong about Alfonsin, during his government the militars of the junta were jugded (in 1985) but then he decreted Obediencia Debida y Punto Final laws.
The human rights here its not only about Videla et al being judged (this is the first government of four that have condenated the militars, dont forget about this), it refers to the making memory policies, like what they did to the Esma, decrete 24 th march holiday, give resources to abuelas de plaza de mayo, and a large etc.
Plus, issues like the gay marriage, sexual identity and other laws.

About poverty, there are defenitely improvements that I mentioned a lot of times on this forum, from not kirchneristas sources, as this time.
About debt, its pretty much obvious, the numbers are there, you can say what you want, but the numbers speak for itselves.

Despite Punto Final, etc., what Alfonsín did was utterly unprecedented and deserves respect. The Kirchners' human rights support, though, is pretty overwhelming rhetorical, and their attempts to intimidate independent statisticians and journalists are reprehensible. Defense of their debt policies is laughable, as they've left the country's credit rating underwater.

 

[Matiasba]

The militars and responsible people of the terror were totally free until 2003. Because after obediencia debida and punto final Menem absolved all of them with the indulto, and the Alianza (1999-2001) and Duhalde (2001-2003) did nothing to change that. So up to 2003 Videla and friends were totally free, and just had the social disapproval.
About the rest, I think its futile to continue talking, were not going to change our perspectives, I like very much this government got out of the red, and some people here say that it is correct to take debt, or that the less debt is a symptom of how bad they re doing, because no one wants to lend money to Arg. On the contrary, I think you will always find someone to lend money, because thats how it works, its a great bussiness to lend money today (I mean money in these quantities) and its a mechanism of financial capitalism that will never stop. The trick is in which side are you, if you re the one who ask for money or the one that lend it. In this direction, knowing that the lender side is the only one that wins, this government stimulated a lot to create the Banco del Sur, with Brazil and others mercosur countries.

 

[trennod]

Matias, improvements in poverty arent that great when you consider the increases in revenue the government has made from:
- increase in soy/grains prices over the past decade
- increase in retentions of these soy/grains (remember the fight with el campo)

Here is an eg: household income increases ten-fold yet the household remains just as hungry.

A decade won, no. A few years of good growth (coming off a low base) and thanks mainly to external forces (soy market prices). In social development, put a way a few of those from the dictatorship (easy populist politics) and legalised gay marriage. Economically, the last few years things are turning to sh*t again.

Matias, if you got out of Buenos Aires you would realise that poverty really hasnt improved much at all. Get out of Capital Federal (go to the interior) and/or talk to some people in the social work scene.

 

[Gringoboy]

I read the English version of the BBC article and found it to be a cop out quite frankly.
Without suggesting that they adhere to my point of view God forbid, I'd like to have read about other issues in more detail such as the judicial reform, the money laundering scandal, the odious currency/import export restrictions etcetera.
Interesting to note how the two women that the BBC interviewed didn't want their last names published.