Andrew Graham-Yooll On A Decade Of Kirchnerism

[notebook.fix]

I fear she'll be a martyr to many no matter how it ends up. The "anti k's" will get the blame for this governments failures.

Yes, very good point, but I'm willing to bet that the hard core KKs who will continue to hold this view will be significantly reduced in their numbers at that stage, and as long as they don't turn into Montoneros (Terrorists) then their impact 'should' be limited... hopefully ..but I could just be dreaming too.

 

[AmigoArtistico]

From Federico these owner of the bakery, to Peter the taxi driver to Raul the architect to Paul the street carton collector the message is clear.... It's the governments fault. Really?

Never do I hear anybody ask why they've let it come to this. Never is there discussion about why the people have allowed the country to socially, politically and financially decay over the last 50 years.

The Argentine people have nobody to blame but themselves for the mess they're in because for some inexplicable reason, they are big on rhetoric con poco acción. And no, a million people banging pots just doesn't cut it.

Trevor, I'm still waiting for you to actually say something. What would you do that's not being done? Seriously?

How old are you, Trevor? How long have you been here? I'd guess by your comments that you're in your 20's and you've been here no more than a couple years. You're just repeating all the tired criticism that's been said a thousand times.

Again, Trevor. What would you do? Specifics, please.

 

[TrevorCito]

AmigoArtistico, thanks but I've said enough. I don't need to have the answers nor need to answer your questions to have made a valid point. Further, I choose not to elaborate at this juncture as you would seem to prefer to attack my personal attributes such as age and duration in Argentina. If you have something meaningful to add please feel free to refute my claims. If not, please refrain from your argumentum ad hominem argumentation style.

 

[notebook.fix]

Never do I hear anybody ask why they've let it come to this. Never is there discussion about why the people have allowed the country to socially, politically and financially decay over the last 50 years.

I see your point but to paint all Argentines with the same brush is to overlook the fact that you are talking about two Argentinas here.
The political/economic/social decay that began with Peronism was not backed by all Argentines. It's not the fault of those in the smaller group that Peronism is still so influential. There were no Peronists on my mothers side of the family for example (I'm proud to say).

 

[AmigoArtistico]

AmigoArtistico, thanks but I've said enough. I don't need to have the answers nor need to answer your questions to have made a valid point. Further, I choose not to elaborate at this juncture as you would seem to prefer to attack my personal attributes such as age and duration in Argentina. If you have something meaningful to add please feel free to refute my claims. If not, please refrain from your argumentum ad hominem argumentation style.

Trevor, you made no points, and never said anything. That's not an attack on your character. And you haven't made any claims to refute. You've said nothing meaningful at all.

 

[TrevorCito]

AmigoArtistico, I'm not going to hatch a plan for civil disobedience on this site so give it a rest. I won't bite so while I appreciate your eagerness and enthusiasm for the minutia, this is not the forum for it.

If you're really interested in ways to counter a government through peaceful means then I suggest you google it. There are more than enough historical examples of nations saving themselves from tyranny so knock yourself out.

 

[AmigoArtistico]

Just more nothing. You try to boil down an incredibly complex situation into a couple of glib, naive sentences completely lacking in substance, and then just continue repeating yourself. What'd that take you, three minutes of deep thought?

When I ask you what you'd actually do, you tell me to use Google.

I guess that really sums up your position.

 

[Yogur griego]

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/131984/a-free-press-ensures-a-free-society

 

[Gringoboy]

If you're really interested in ways to counter a government through peaceful means then I suggest you google it. There are more than enough historical examples of nations saving themselves from tyranny so knock yourself out.

Hey Trev, we're all entitled to a point of view. I don't see anyone disputing that fact.
But asking us to Google for answers is a cop out isn't it?
Two very good examples without even needing to google would be the People Power revolution in the Philippines 1986 which overthrew Marcos and the huge marches in Buenos Aires in 2001 that saw De la Rua flee from the Casa Rosada in a helo with his tail between his legs.
Both achieved what they had set out to do...to rid the country of the current regime.
Trev, underestimate the people and you'll be making a big mistake.

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

I can't help but agreeing with our Amigo here, waffling on about civil disobedience without context, understanding or suggestions is fairly insulting when paired with the statement that there are only a few enlightened Argentines etc.

Marching on a grand scale solidifies unity of the oppostion. The October elections present an opportunity to expressrejection of current policies. Spend the next 2 years solidfying the opposition around a viable candidate who has made contact with the outside world, communicated their plans for re-engagement and build again from scratch.

Not paying your tax (sorry, that is a defacto state !) or bringing about the disorderly end to the current regime is precisely the last thing required by this government. Sorry if that doesn't fit in with your empty soundbites Trevor, but I suppose the real concern here isn't satisfying your noble but ill informed urges, but rebuilding the international reputation and internal industry of a potentially great country.

That takes time.

The greatest mistakes of the current US govt in implementing regime changes (amazingly still being continued today) are failure to plan for the vacuum. Iraq - disaster. Afghanistan - disaster. Libya and Syria both face uncertain futures as the fervour to replace bad govt was not matched by the fervour to plan for future govt. It's a lesson that never get's learnt.

It is an extreme analogy, however, Argentina is a country open to extremism when a vacuum exists. The only way to get this country back on track is constitutionally, via elections and an embryonic opposition has to be given the opportunity to grow and gain strength.

All this wistful talk of civil disobedience and failure to reference a single plan for a successful future govt smacks of naivety.

Tell us Trevorcito. Who will govern when we take to streets to oust Cristina? How will the country solidify around that govt? It may have escaped your attention but protests are not new here so how will your little plan be different?