Andrew Graham-Yooll On A Decade Of Kirchnerism

[camberiu]

I'm sorry, but we (I'm not Argentine, but my wife is) went out into the streets banging pots -- well over a million of us -- because we do know better. There are more that a few enlightened Argentinians. You can say that people should have seen this coming before the last elections (many people did have strong reservations for a long time before the last elections), but that's not really fair, because what we're seeing now is a blitz attack that began right after the last elections. Before then, things weren't being well managed, but there was nothing like what's going on now.

I agree. I think we are near a major tipping point as the majority of the population begin to grow tired of all this chaos and uncertainty about the future. As the masses mobilize and begin to more forcefully ask for change, thin...wait, what was that? LAS MALVINAS SAN NUESTRAS!!!!!!!

ARGENTINA!!!!
ARGENTINA!!!!
ARGENTINA!!!!

 

[ajoknoblauch]

I agree. I think we are near a major tipping point as the majority of the population begin to grow tired of all this chaos and uncertainty about the future. As the masses mobilize and begin to more forcefully ask for change, thin...wait, what was that? LAS MALVINAS SAN NUESTRAS!!!!!!!

ARGENTINA!!!!
ARGENTINA!!!!
ARGENTINA!!!!

If there's one thing the Kirchneristas know about, it's setting priorities!

 

[Matiasba]

Was Peron a Military man originally or was he a bailarina from teatro Colon? I rest my case.
You can always tell what periods in history were ruled by the Peronists....there's always a news blackout. The media, radio and newspapers were controlled & sanitized.

Peron was a right wing populist who zig zagged across the political spectrum when ever it suited, a painted tiger that never lost his military 'temperament', even when he had to dress up in democracy so to speak. The first victims under Peronism are press freedom, the independence of the judiciary, the national constitution and the economy. These are the hallmarks of the Peronists, as well as the populist practice of expropriating firms and other iron fisted habits etc.

cough

President Edelmiro Farrell (left) and his benefactor, Vice President Juan Perón, in April 1945.

As a colonel, Perón took a significant part in the military coup by the GOU (United Officers' Group, a secret society) against the conservative civilian government of Castillo. At first an assistant to Secretary of War General Edelmiro Farrell, under the administration of General Pedro Ramírez, he later became the head of the then-insignificant Department of Labor.
Perón's work in the Labor Department witnessed the passage of a broad range of progressive social reforms designed to improve working conditions, and led to an alliance with the socialist and syndicalist movements in the Argentine labor unions. This caused his power and influence to increase in the military government.

Perón, nevertheless, was an authoritarian who admired Mussolini and had a great deal in common with other milicos (his admirers always refer to him "Teniente General" rather than "President").

Yes Peron was a military man, and he was indeed authoritarian (as it is this government), but the way he got into power was totally democratically, by elections won in 1946, and then in 1952, and then in 1973. So while Peron had this features of authoritarism, he always respected the constitution. And he nationalizated but also created a lot of new labour laws, such as aguinaldo or vacaciones which didnt exist, he gave a lot of power to sindicates and in the relationship capital-trabajo always supported trabajo.
And after Peron government every single militar anticonstitutional and antidemocratic government had the purpose of eliminate peronism, chasing its leaders, intervening sindicates, prohibiting in elections and even killing them with Videla.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

Yes Peron was a military man, and he was indeed authoritarian (as it is this government), but the way he got into power was totally democratically, by elections won in 1946, and then in 1952, and then in 1973. So while Peron had this features of authoritarism, he always respected the constitution. And he nationalizated but also created a lot of new labour laws, such as aguinaldo or vacaciones which didnt exist, he gave a lot of power to sindicates and in the relationship capital-trabajo always supported trabajo.
And after Peron government every single militar anticonstitutional and antidemocratic government had the purpose of eliminate peronism, chasing its leaders, intervening sindicates, prohibiting in elections and even killing them with Videla.

I'm trying to understand the underlying motivations of the Peronists. It looks like the last 70 years in Argentina can be described as a war between the Peronists and Militarists (though Perón was a military officer). It's been a revolving door between elected officials and military coups. Underlying it all this seems to really be a clash between the working class and the upper class, eg military, business owners, land owners, etc. This is obviously a simplistic view but that seems to be the tenets. I've perceived the same struggle in some of the pro-K posts here such as Bajo_Cero2 saying he couldn't get a job if it wasn't for the Peronists. Before the Peronists it was employment and advancement not by merit, but by family ties, etc.

Am I on track so far?

 

[Matiasba]

Peronism represents full employment level, the upgrade of the internal market, industry, etc. This government is a poor imitation of that society, is a wannabe, with a lot of precarious jobs, a definetely more closed market job, with less oportunities, being eliminated the meritocracy society from the XXth century. Here in Argentina the way to get a job is by knowing someone, there are very little chances to get a normal job by presenting your resume, you have to be a genius or have an excellent resume, etc, if not, its by contacts, a friend, a friend of a friend, etc. People who have the power and could help you in some way, knowing the situation in which you re immersed, they just wont, they prefer you to look after instead of helping you. The way to get a job here is complicated, you are going to be controlled by the government, they wont make it easy for you, they can totally managed you as they want. So that are a lot of extras you should add to the normal situation of searching for a job.
We have like 30% of informal job, and we have like 60% of cuentapropismo (self-employment work) who increadibily increased in the 90s, we have a State that can not manage all this amount of people, of quality jobs, we dont have industry as we had, we still have a lot of poverty. This government is trying to go in that direction, of a welfare state society, full employment level, with a imports substitute industry, etc, but this is another world, we have corporations, etc, so thats a chimera.

 

[scotttswan]

but the way he got into power was totally democratically, by elections won in 1946, and then in 1952, and then in 1973.

Perón took a significant part in the military coup by the GOU

At first an assistant to Secretary of War General Edelmiro Farrell, under the administration of General Pedro Ramírez, he later became the head of the then-insignificant Department of Labor

transform the Department of Labor into a more significant government office. Perón had the Department of Labor elevated to a cabinet-level secretariat in November 1943.

For contributing to his success, Perón was appointed Vice President and Secretary of War, while retaining his Labor portfolio.


When was he elected head of the department of labor or vice president or do these positions carry no power in argentina?

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

All I can say is trying to run a business here is very, very difficult - bordering on impossible. We can't fire employees for cause (stealing, not meeting goals, working against the company, pocketing commissions, constantly late, etc). We have employees who come to work, then get pregnant and then find a doctor to say they have a "complication" and shouldn't be a work. They've been out on leave for the full pregnancy term getting full salary and benefits, they come back to work for a month and then get pregnant again and are out of the office for another 9+ months. We have employees who are constantly sick - almost always on a Friday, Monday, or days before holidays. I could go on and on! If we fired them we'd still pay a large severance.

We even have employees in sales who think their commissions from sales are a part of their salary. There seems to be an incredible sense of entitlement because they are so protected. I appreciate the progress on worker rights but this system has gone way, way overboard and I think the economy suffers seriously for it.

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

I hear what you are saying GS but the pregnancy part surprises me. Perhaps it's a case of the honest worker being victimised by the system. I know of at least two women who were 'let go' after returning from maternity leave. My own wife was asked after a few months in the job if she intended on getting pregnant and if so, when !? It was a fairly aggressive conversation.

I guess the system creates a situation where it is best to be dishonest, both of these women had their kid, returned to work and were basically told someone else is doing your job now, we have nothing for you, cheerio. I also know that in both circumstances there were roles available for both of them which were filled by internal candidates after they left. I asked if they had a case for wrongful dismissal and they said no, all they got was the severance. A year´s salary is great if you can get an equivalent job within a year, on both cases they have struggled (accountancy) and are travelling out to the province each day for work in a lower paid job.

I think the laws help no one, the unions screw the employer and the dishonest employees take advantage where sometimes those who should be protected are not.

When I started work I was told I was part of a union. I promptly told HR I didn't want to be part of any union and was told in no un certain terms to stay put for now as they had already budgeted for the 25% (25 %!!!) across the board rise agreed by the union. So, no incentive to perform, objectives fairly pointless and mediocrity encouraged.

Fortunately my work is 80% external to Arg, and all my colleagues (so far) from Argentina have been dilligent and responsive.

Short version...the dishonest and lazy are rewarded.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

I believe that if there is no incentive/reward to work then most people won't.

 

[Matiasba]

Perón took a significant part in the military coup by the GOU

At first an assistant to Secretary of War General Edelmiro Farrell, under the administration of General Pedro Ramírez, he later became the head of the then-insignificant Department of Labor

transform the Department of Labor into a more significant government office. Perón had the Department of Labor elevated to a cabinet-level secretariat in November 1943.

For contributing to his success, Perón was appointed Vice President and Secretary of War, while retaining his Labor portfolio.


When was he elected head of the department of labor or vice president or do these positions carry no power in argentina?

Peron participated in a coup.... to a military (anticonstitutional) government!!!!


Militars were in power since 1930, and by 1943, due the world war and Argentine position, they were having intense internal disputes. As a consequence of these disputes is that emerged Peron.