Argentina Crime a reality check

[steveinbsas]

are well-off expats noticing that recoleta and palermo have more crime than they used to have ten years ago - probably yes.

do recoleta and palermo have the same crime rates as some of the faceless, concrete barrios in grand buenos aires - are you kidding me? Of course not.

Well, since few expats live in those "faceless, concrete barrios in grand buenos aires" why should we be concerned with what goes on in them? We have no power to reduce crime in those areas except by never going there.

As MizzMarr posted (substitute Oakland with "faceless, concrete barrios in grand buenos aires"):

How does Oakland compare? Really, we're living HERE so who cares what the crime is like elsewhere unless you're going to be living there, too?

Ironically, I do happen to care as my girlfriend was robbed in the street by a knife wielding thug on a moto in Avellaneda...while we were living in Recoleta. (She was visiting her mother).

I'm sure you are aware that Villa 31 is within easy striking distance of the posh areas of Retiro (often erroneously yet intentionally referred to as part of Recoleta), especially for the thieves with motos.

Two men once got into my building in Recloeta while I was in the USA. They were there specifically to rob me but accosted my neighbors instead.

 

[esllou]

well that's all fine and good steve, but the original point was that it was the expat areas that are suffering most from crime. That's just not true. In any way.

if you only want to take the subset of "barrios where expats live", then what is the point of a comparison anyway? You want to compare "expat barrios" with, erm, expat barrios because they're the only areas expats live in. Surreal.

 

[steveinbsas]

well that's all fine and good steve, but the original point was that it was the expat areas that are suffering most from crime. That's just not true. In any way.

if you only want to take the subset of "barrios where expats live", then what is the point of a comparison anyway? You want to compare "expat barrios" with, erm, expat barrios because they're the only areas expats live in. Surreal.

The crime statistics that are most relevant to expats are the ones in the areas in which they live or may move to in the future. I would be very interested in comparing the crime rate in Recoleta and Palermo of 5 years ago with the crime rate in those same barrios today. That isn't being surreal; it's just wanting to know what is real.

Here's marksocs "original" point:

I will not read all of this,simply put:the fact that the cheto areas are more dangerous now doesn´t mean that crime is rising. In fact we have less crime than 5 years ago, it seems to be only more concentrated around the areas were the obvious victims are. And I don´t have any problems with that, as those are the areas where the people that produced the poverty live. Yes,you heard what I said. Karma is a bitch.

Here is your original response which seems to belittle him as well as imply that he said something he didn't:

hang on, "poor people produce poverty"? Is that a good summing up of your grasp of modern economics?

Marcsoc said he thought crime seemed to be more concentrated around the areas where the obvious victims are. His opinion may not reflect actual statistics, but how expats perceive crime in these areas has a lot to do with whether or not they decide to live there...or come to BA at all.

 

[esllou]

so we can't compare expat areas with anything else because it's not relevant to us? The fact that these other areas have far worse crime figures is also irrelevant I suppose?

the statement that crime is concentrated around wealthier areas is patently untrue and is typical of the usual inward-looking navel gazing we get too often on these forums. Recoleta and Palermo are incredibly safe areas compared to the rest of BA. But I can't say that, because, you know, expats don't live in other areas.

Yes...surreal.

I'm out.

 

[L_K_P]

I am from Australia and i consider it 1000 times more dangerous going out at night there than here, even in smaller cities.

A few pages back someone was talking about how there was more 'random violence' in other places and this is totally right. Australia at night is full of psychos on meth who just want to randomly fight and smash your head in. In buenos aires at least the criminals have a point, they want to steal your wallet and cell phone, so if you are in the wrong place and just give it to them you can usually avoid problems. In australia there are so many who couldnt care less about your wallet or cell phone, they just want to kick your head in because you 'looked at them'

 

[perry]

Let me answer this question and say that crime has increased in the last years in expensive areas of Buenos Aires especially in the hot spots of Las Canitas, Palermo Soho and Recoleta. Remember that less than 10 years ago there was very little tourism in this city and of course this has attracted criminal activity .

Saying that there are more crime ridden areas of the Capital Federal and the provinces. Rich suburbs of Martinez, Acassuso, Vincente Lopez and many northern suburbs have been more targeted in the last years creating a huge inflow of peoples to secure apts in the wealthy enclaves of Capital Federal.

Once again Buenos Aires is reasonably safe if you take care and are aware of your surroundings . There is little of the gang violence prevalent in many world wide cities of similar size.

 

[steveinbsas]

I think Perry just nailed it!

 

[sergio]

"I'm sure you are aware that Villa 31 is within easy striking distance of the posh areas of Retiro (often erroneously yet intentionally referred to as part of Recoleta), especially for the thieves with motos."

The lines are blurred regarding Recoleta/Retiro. Let's take the area around Patio Bullrich, the Four Seasons, the Caesar Park and the Park Hyatt. That isn't Recoleta? I think most people would say it is. It's certainly one of the poshest in town. At the same time, Calle Aroyo on the other side of 9 de Julio is definitely in Retiro and is as elegant and upper class as you can find so Retiro can be just as classy as the best of Recoleta. I've seen areas on the other side of Santa Fe referred to as Recoleta and streets so far from anything near the heart of Recoleta that it is absurd.

As for crime, of course Avellaneda is one of the worst areas for crime. It is obvious that lower middle class and poor areas are going to have a lot more crime. People are scared to go out at night. People in Recoleta may be cautious but are not terrorized as they are in the poorer parts of the city.

 

[steveinbsas]

The lines are blurred regarding Recoleta/Retiro. Let's take the area around Patio Bullrich, the Four Seasons, the Caesar Park and the Park Hyatt. That isn't Recoleta? I think most people would say it is. It's certainly one of the poshest in town. At the same time, Calle Aroyo on the other side of 9 de Julio is definitely in Retiro and is as elegant and upper class as you can find so Retiro can be just as classy as the best of Recoleta.

Here is the official jurisdiction of comiseria 17. Av. Libertador, Libertad, Av. Córdoba, Junín, Juncal, Pte. R. M. Ortiz, E.Scchiaffino, Dr. C. Vaz Ferreira.

I have been told that comiseria 17 includes all of Recoleta, (and is the only comiseria that covers an entire barrio)but I agree that the area between Libertad and 9 de Juilo is often include in the common definition of Recoleta. After the expansion of 9 de Julio it's easy to see why most would use it as the dividing line between Recoleta and Retiro.

I've seen areas on the other side of Santa Fe referred to as Recoleta and streets so far from anything near the heart of Recoleta that it is absurd. .

You are SO right! I've often posted that the area between Santa Fe and Cordoba between Pueyrredon and Callo (perhaps Libertad) is part of Recoleta, but not a very attractive part.

 

[yayayo]

Can one relaistically expect to have little or no crime in a megalopolis? Against the backdrop of this implicit expectation, any crime level can appear as dnagerous. The way with which everyone seems to parrot concerns about insecurity makes me pause. Could it be such an overwhelming concern? Is there anything else involved here? I believe there is room for considering that there are benefits to be reaped in advocating greater security or in arguing that the city is overwhelmingly dangerous, which the statistics per 100,000 inhabitants do not support.

The most obvious is a police force deriving salaries for jobs a great number of which are passive. The same could be said of guards and porters. The latter especially have a great say in who repairs the building and at what rates. For agreat number of buildings, they outsource at uncompetitive rates and keep a percentage. The specter of insecurity serves them to cloak their doings. Merchants and small and meidum sized businesses also reap benefits, indirectly, by somehow suggesting that their predatory pricing is a result of this general state of unsafety and chaos. If one were to ask them individually why prices do not keep at par with median wage, they are quick to pick another setting in whcih inevitably they are puppets, pawns or victims. You see, they mark up at some of the highest margins imaginable out of necessity, just to get by.... in these tempestuous seas of insecuirty