Argentina Crime a reality check

[steveinbsas]

hang on, "poor people produce poverty"? Is that a good summing up of your grasp of modern economics?

Though I could be mistaken and he could have stated it more clearly, I think marksoc was referring to the increase in crime in areas like Recoleta and Palermo ("the areas were the obvious victims are") and was implying that "those are the areas where the people that produced the poverty live." He did not say that poor people produce poverty.

I will not read allof this,simply put:the fact that the cheto areas are more dangerous now doesn´t mean that crime is rising. In fact we have less crime than 5 years ago, it seems to be only more concentrated around the areas were the obvious victims are. And I don´t have any problems with that, as those are the areas where the people that produced the poverty live. Yes,you heard what I said. Karma is a bitch.

 

[perry]

There is absolutely no basic in fact that there are more poor argentinian born people today than in the last 20 years. Unemployment at historic low levels and with a social security net provided by the Argentinian government has insulated many from homelessness and destitution.

The facts are that Argentina attracts more immigrants per capita than any country in Latin America and they are the poorest members of their countries . There has been a huge increase of immigrants in the last years and villa miserias have been growing to cope with the huge demand.

Homelessness as a issue in Buenos Aires is very low and all figures will show that there are more homeless per capita in most major cities of the USA than in Argentina. Having a roof over your head is a requisite for all and the state does provide for this.

The crime issue has been exaggerated in Argentina but saying that I agree that it is a growing concern in Buenos Aires and must be addressed . There are parts of our country that are practically crime free and many live lives of complete tranquility . Go to Chubut, Santa Cruz and the southern provinces and serious crime is a rarity. There is much more to Argentina than just the Capital....

 

[yayayo]

I think that accepting the basic premise that there is a need for greater security should be questioned, or at least considered in light of the fact that it may reflect the interests of the security providers rather than of those of society as a whole. The recurrence with which crimes are reported may reflect a state of total insecurity OR it may reflect the vested interest a particular sector has in moving in this direction. The greater question would be whether this particular crime level is unnaturally high given the size of the city.

 

[bsas]

hang on, "poor people produce poverty"? Is that a good summing up of your grasp of modern economics?

cheto=rich people, so yes, he's referring to the rich areas. its just that old, tired Peronist class warfare that allows the government to fill its pockets while laying the blame at the feet of the evil 'oligarchy'. God, its just so ironic that it comes from someone who a) has enough money to take english classes and b) has enough money to buy a computer. I think its just a good speech to get you laid when you're out on the town with other budding Guevaras in San Telmo.

 

[steveinbsas]

I think that accepting the basic premise that there is a need for greater security should be questioned, or at least considered in light of the fact that it may reflect the interests of the security providers rather than of those of society as a whole.

Who are you referring to when you use the term "security providers?" What do you mean when you suggest that the "security providers" may be promoting their own "interests?" Are you referring to police seeing greater power or private security providers seeking greater profits?

Individuals are the victims of the kind crimes we are talking about here. "Society as a whole" is not an entity who's "interest" can be easily measured or agreed upon: the individual person is. Nonetheless, a decrease in crime against individuals is certainly in the interest of society as a whole.

The recurrence with which crimes are reported may reflect a state of total insecurity OR it may reflect the vested interest a particular sector has in moving in this direction.

Do you mean the frequency at which crimes are reported? By whom, the victims themselves or (using your terms) the "security providers?"

The greater question would be whether this particular crime level is unnaturally high given the size of the city.

Even if the crime level could be determined to be "natural" for the size of the city what difference should that make? If there is any crime that can be combated by greater security, why not employ it?

 

[perry]

I ask all those who complain about the crime to put their energies into changing the road laws in Argentina and creating a efficient highway patrol to police the highways and roads of our cities and provinces. There is so much that a government can do in this arena and deaths and injuries can be halved overnight .

Why there is less attention on this issue always amazes me as it certainly affects more people and creates more burden on our society and its people.

 

[esllou]

Though I could be mistaken and he could have stated it more clearly, I think marksoc was referring to the increase in crime in areas like Recoleta and Palermo ("the areas were the obvious victims are") and was implying that "those are the areas where the people that produced the poverty live." He did not say that poor people produce poverty.

well, I presumed he didn't mean that because it wouldn't be true to claim that the areas that are suffering crime in BA are places like recoleta and palermo. Far from it.

 

[steveinbsas]

well, I presumed he didn't mean that because it wouldn't be true to claim that the areas that are suffering crime in BA are places like recoleta and palermo. Far from it.

Recoleta and Palermo aren't suffering from crime?

Isn't that where the money is?

I never could load the crime map that 2guysinPM posted.

Can anyone add some numbers to this thread?

 

[esllou]

are well-off expats noticing that recoleta and palermo have more crime than they used to have ten years ago - probably yes.

do recoleta and palermo have the same crime rates as some of the faceless, concrete barrios in grand buenos aires - are you kidding me? Of course not.

 

[syngirl]

Unemployment at historic low levels and with a social security net provided by the Argentinian government has insulated many from homelessness and destitution.

If unemployment figures are based on farcical surveys such as the census the other week -- where the question about employment asked: Did you work 1 hour in the last week? -- then I think they have to be completely erroneous. I would not trust any unemployment figures coming out of the government after hearing that ridiculous question from the censo.