Argentina questions allied attacks on Gaddafi

[notebook.fix]

How would you feel if Cristina ordered in foreign troops/mercenaries from Chile to come into BsAs to shoot & slaughter pro democracy demonstrators in Plaza de Mayo? If you agree with letting Gaddafi do what he wants, then you agree with the same thing happening here.

EDIT: I promise will cease from asking this question again. I think I proved my point here. I rest my case.

As I said, it is not 'either you are with us or are anti-democratic'. I am against Gaddafi, against the Talibans. But also against senseless war and carnage of civilians. A no-fly zone is something completely different than that done so far.
Some good two years ago Russia stepped in to defend the rebel south ossetians. All the Western countries were upset, including Sarkozy who was about to take a gun and shot at the Russians himself.
Now he is the first to support the rebels (well, at least after Gaddafi said he had financed his presidential campaign).
The USA and the UK do also the same.
This is not realpolitik, this is hypocrisy and double moral.

 

[Guillo]

How would you feel if Cristina ordered in foreign troops/mercenaries from Chile to come into BsAs to shoot & slaughter pro democracy demonstrators in Plaza de Mayo? If you agree with letting Gaddafi do what he wants, then you agree with the same thing happening here.

EDIT: I promise will cease from asking this question again. I think I proved my point here. I rest my case.

You seem to be ignoring that Gaddafi has been doing basically the same (being a dictator) for years while US was totally happy about it.

I'm far from supporting him, but that doesn't mean I support the US getting into whatever country that has any oil, get in, kill a ton of civilian in the name of "freedom" while at the same time supporting dictators around the world.

A lot of people here lack any sort of critical thinking about the US actions, its really funny to read.

 

[citygirl]

A lot of people here lack any sort of critical thinking about the US actions, its really funny to read.

Very funny in fact Exactly my reaction when I read many of the posts here.

I'm hardly an uber-patriot running around saying the US is the best int the world, never does anything wrong and is infallable. The US plays realpolitik as does every other country. Many foreign policy decisions are short-sighted, dangerous and naive (IMO). I've lived in several different countries and heard the good and the bad about the US. However, just as its incredibly naive to say everything the US does is good, it's equally naive and short-sighted to blame the US for everything.

This latest military action is case in point. All I'm reading is US, US, US. "Don't take it personally citygirl that your country is killing people" It's a UN action but that seems to be forgotten I hear people talking about the invasion of Libya. No ground troops involved, enforcing a no-fly zone and protecting rebels (cynicism aside, I think we can all agree that protecting citizens from slaughter, whatever the motivation is a good thing yes?) . I hear lots of talk about oil but no one is talking about the fact that its the EU that would benefit much more than the US. No country voted against it but it seems the blame is laid at the door of the US.

Oh & redrum - I do still encourage vaccines if you're going to a place they require it. Because you know, it's the law and a requirement to enter the country. I do still laugh at the tenant who tried to pay his rent in gold. Because no apt owner accepts rent in gold (no matter how much you talk about it). So all that gold didn't get the tenant an apartment. So yes - not so effective to have your money in actual gold if you can't use it! And I read the NY Times (global edition). I also read Clarin, La Nacion, the Financial Times, the WSJ, the Washington Post, The Times of India, the Daily News and yes, I've been known to enjoy a gander at The Mirror. I listen to the BBC, CNN and local news channels. Because I like to get a sense of perspective. Try it sometime, it's refreshing

 

[marksoc]

How would you feel if Cristina ordered in foreign troops/mercenaries from Chile to come into BsAs to shoot & slaughter pro democracy demonstrators in Plaza de Mayo?

Hehe, Cristina... Lucky us that we live in a democracy and that Cristina is going to win the next elections by a wide margin,then.

What would you say if the US decided to invade Israel to stop them killing off the local population, by establishing a no-fly zone over Gaza which in fact includes throwing missiles over the Dizzengoff Center in central Tel Aviv? I admit that the Dizengoff mall is ugly as hell, but a Tomahawk? Undeserved.

 

[Guillo]

Hehe, Cristina... Lucky us that we live in a democracy and that Cristina is going to win the next elections by a wide margin,then.

If she was so sure about that, she would have already announced her candidacy, which she still doesn't do. Instead, she keep expending OUR money in campaign and has no trouble getting in bed with people like Moyano and Menem. Its really disgusting.

 

[HowardinBA]

update

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12837330

 

[Hache]

I've lived in several different countries and heard the good and the bad about the US. However, just as its incredibly naive to say everything the US does is good, it's equally naive and short-sighted to blame the US for everything.

True.

The US is a huge world player and people will always talk about Her actions. Nothing unnatural there to me. Most people (myself included) have poor or incomplete knowledge of what they talk about, and their assessments can be wrong or misguided, but I believe wrong opinions are better than silence or indifference.

I think that what you call naivety is in many cases denial. Blaming others is always easier than taking responsibility and assuming mistakes. As long as the US remains the first world power, people in denial all over the world will find Her an easy scapegoat for their misfortunes. Americans in denial will always prefer to use the "world paladins of freedom" speech rather than learning more about matters that may reveal unpleasant facts. Maybe (and this is just my opinion) they are afraid of finding out that the US is a normal country. With all Her great things, but still normal.

Sometimes I like to imagine what the world would be like if Argentina were the first power. Would we be different? Better? A magnanimous well of wisdom and fairness?

Everything in the human world is the result of human nature. There's no point in blaming a superpower for not being superhuman. There's no point in believing a superpower is superhuman either. So let's keep our expectations at a human level.

 

[notebook.fix]

And you seem to forget that this is the first time in 40 years that there's been a popular uprising against Gaddafi..... hence the need to protect the overwhelming majority who NOW oppose him from his Genocidal intentions.

If the Military in Argentina had tried to systematically kill half the population instead of the 30,000 back in the 70s then according to your logic the international community should have just stood back & watched the slaughter without intervening yes????

Yes, you make a lot of sense.

You seem to be ignoring that Gaddafi has been doing basically the same (being a dictator) for years while US was totally happy about it.

I'm far from supporting him, but that doesn't mean I support the US getting into whatever country that has any oil, get in, kill a ton of civilian in the name of "freedom" while at the same time supporting dictators around the world.

A lot of people here lack any sort of critical thinking about the US actions, its really funny to read.

 

[Amargo]

but I believe wrong opinions are better than silence or indifference

I don't agree with this, very often wrong opinions lead to more damage than the problem itself. The problem is the West makes mistake after mistake in muslim countries and then wonders why they people from those countries hate it. And the US is often pointed at because they are the leaders of the West! The US pushes forward to be leaders, it should also accept all consequences and responsabilities associated with it. Or otherwise transfer leadership to another country.

No one on this forum seems to be against intervention to stop Gaddafi. But many, including most countries including yes the Arab League, Turkey, Germany, Russia, China are against the brute force used for implementing a non-fly zone. It is the bullying what is annoying and causes hatred.

And the propaganda: the US says not a single civilian was killed or harmed during the bombing. Come on! Surely not the hundreds or thousands Gaddafi says, but seeing at the destruction no one can believe this.

Then the EU goes to Bahrain and defends the police which is acting against demonstrators (some people were killed there). Only because it is a friendly regime.

Kosovo and South Ossetia.

The are so many examples of double moral! The western governments are sadly clowns.

 

[Guillo]

And you seem to forget that this is the first time in 40 years that there's been a popular uprising against Gaddafi..... hence the need to protect the overwhelming majority who NOW oppose him from his Genocidal intentions.

If the Military in Argentina had tried to systematically kill half the population instead of the 30,000 back in the 70s then according to your logic the international community should have just stood back & watched the slaughter without intervening yes????

Yes, you make a lot of sense.

You seem to forget that the US was one of the supporters of the military coup at that time. Your memory is so selective....