Argentina vs Brasilia, Uruguay

[camberiu]

Argentina is, and always will be, just a less poor country in a region of very poor countries.

That is not what the data says, just your wishful thinking (or maybe a variation of the racial delusion?).

 

[Redpossum]

I shared the map above with a student of mine in Brasilia just now, and he was surprised. He said that he had expected Brazil's poverty rates to be higher than Argentina's.

Perceptions, eh?

 

[¡Sencillamente yo!]

I shared the map above with a student of mine in Brasilia just now, and he was surprised. He said that he had expected Brazil's poverty rates to be higher than Argentina's.

Perceptions, eh?

In my opinion, due to all the downward slide of Argentina since the days of Perón, with everything in between, right up to today and how the current custodians (POLITICIANS / LAW MAKERS) of the country are handling things: Argentina is transitioning to a "PERMA POOR COUNTRY" drifting further away from evolving into an advanced society.

I believe that poverty and inequality will approach 50+ percent (perhaps more) in the next 2 to 3 decades unless some kind of organizational miracle were to take place in a governmental sense. (There is always a wildcard that some valuable natural resource could be discovered that would be so abundant, that the sale of it would make up for mis management. But it is a long shot like a lighting strike in a predicted place.)

 

[Redpossum]

In my opinion, due to all the downward slide of Argentina since the days of Perón, with everything in between, right up to today and how the current custodians (POLITICIANS / LAW MAKERS) of the country are handling things: Argentina is transitioning to a "PERMA POOR COUNTRY" drifting further away from evolving into an advanced society.

I believe that poverty and inequality will approach 50+ percent (perhaps more) in the next 2 to 3 decades unless some kind of organizational miracle were to take place in a governmental sense. (There is always a wildcard that some valuable natural resource could be discovered that would be so abundant, that the sale of it would make up for mis management. But it is a long shot like a lighting strike in a predicted place.)

Your comment is by no means wrong, but I do believe it is a little bit oversimplified. Argentina does have valuable natural resources, but most of the extraction thereof is in the hands of foreign corporations, and most of the profits therefrom go out of the country.

Gold mining is one good example, with horrendous ecological damage from use of cyanide-based or mercury-based extraction methods added in just for fun.

Another painful example is the manner in which Argentina's EEZ is illegally, (and profitably) over-fished by fleets of boats from China, Korea, and Spain. They cluster at mile 201, turn off their transponders, and then enter Argentina's waters. China has the most boats, but Spain is the worst offender in terms of having their transponders off the highest percentage of the time. It's also worth noting that EU fishing rules absolutely prohibit such turning off of transponders at any time, anywhere in the world. To add insult to injury, the port of Montevideo knowingly provides full logistical support to these illegal fishing fleets. And do not pooh-pooh this. Squid is worth a surprising amount of money.

These are just two examples. I could go on for pages. Dredging in the Parana is a subject that could consume volumes on its own.

Is Argentina's own government fundamentally to blame for these abuses, through its own action or inaction? Absolutely! No excuses there.

 

[¡Sencillamente yo!]

Your comment is by no means wrong, but I do believe it is a little bit oversimplified. Argentina does have valuable natural resources, but most of the extraction thereof is in the hands of foreign corporations, and most of the profits therefrom go out of the country.

Gold mining is one good example, with horrendous ecological damage from use of cyanide-based or mercury-based extraction methods added in just for fun.

Another painful example is the manner in which Argentina's EEZ is illegally, (and profitably) over-fished by fleets of boats from China, Korea, and Spain. They cluster at mile 201, turn off their transponders, and then enter Argentina's waters. China has the most boats, but Spain is the worst offender in terms of having their transponders off the highest percentage of the time. It's also worth noting that EU fishing rules absolutely prohibit such turning off of transponders at any time, anywhere in the world. To add insult to injury, the port of Montevideo knowingly provides full logistical support to these illegal fishing fleets. And do not pooh-pooh this. Squid is worth a surprising amount of money.

These are just two examples. I could go on for pages. Dredging in the Parana is a subject that could consume volumes on its own.

Is Argentina's own government fundamentally to blame for these abuses, through its own action or inaction? Absolutely! No excuses there.

Nice agreeable points you make.

Anytime a partner is needed (Foreign country or multi national.) to make a go of something, it's a direct indication that there is not sufficient DOMESTIC capital and or expertise available to go it alone.

Given what I just wrote, Argentina is allowing itself to be raped. It's valuable resources and exterior involvement are the proof.

I see no such probability or possibility this trend reverses itself during the course of this and most likely the next generation. (This is a 20 to 50 year timeframe!)

 

[Dougie]

To add insult to injury, the port of Montevideo knowingly provides full logistical support to these illegal fishing fleets. And do not pooh-pooh this. Squid is worth a surprising amount of money.

Why doesn't the Argentine government pressure Uruguay to not allow this? You'd think if your neighboring country was facilitating billions of dollars of lost resources per year, you'd lean pretty hard on them to stop.

 

[Redpossum]

Why doesn't the Argentine government pressure Uruguay to not allow this? You'd think if your neighboring country was facilitating billions of dollars of lost resources per year, you'd lean pretty hard on them to stop.

Well, Dougie, there's a long, long history behind the answer to that question, going all the way back to the battle of Vuelta de Obligado in 1845. Suffice it to say that Uruguay doesn't really give a donkey fart what the Argentine government wants or doesn't want. And they have entirely valid reasons for feeling that way.

Pepe Mugica famously said that Uruguayos and Argentinos are one people divided by their common culture. Volumes could be written, (and have been written), on the tortured relationship between these two countries. Pensador could probably give us a better perspective on the Uruguayan side of this subject.

 

[Dougie]

Suffice it to say that Uruguay doesn't really give a donkey fart what the Argentine government wants or doesn't want. And they have entirely valid reasons for feeling that way.

I understand that, and they may have their valid reasons. However, you'd think that Argentina has some type of leverage at their disposal to apply to the situation to make Uruguays life more difficult if they don't comply. As you'd laid out it's not a minor issue, but billions of dollars of marine resources being plundered per annum.

 

[Redpossum]

I understand that, and they may have their valid reasons. However, you'd think that Argentina has some type of leverage at their disposal to apply to the situation to make Uruguays life more difficult if they don't comply. As you'd laid out it's not a minor issue, but billions of dollars of marine resources being plundered per annum.

Well, a few years back, when Cristina was in the Casa Rosada, she got into a pissing match with Uruguay over a paper mill on their side dumping more waste into the river than was allowed by the treaty on the matter. That dragged on and on and on and on, and Uruguay never yielded an inch. I suspect Alberto just feels he has more squishy mierda on his plate right now than he can handle, and doesn't feel like locking horns with Lackey Poopoo.

Sadly, there are a number of pressing issues his administration is ignoring, but politics is the art of the possible, and midterms are fast approaching.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Why doesn't the Argentine government pressure Uruguay to not allow this? You'd think if your neighboring country was facilitating billions of dollars of lost resources per year, you'd lean pretty hard on them to stop.

This is the reason Uruguay was created for...