Ars Required For Family Of Four

Is there a way around this?


You land here cash in hands and then find a way to hide it. If you have a DNI, you can rent a safe box at a local bank and change the money on a monthly basis on the unofficial (blue) market. Anything that goes through the official channels (i.e. bank transfers, ATM withdrawal, money exchange at banks) get converted at the official rate, which is usually 30-35% less than the unofficial rate.

OR

You can use Azimo, since you are from UK, but these methods have their glitches. Now and then you hear a crying expat looking for help on this forum because he was asked paperworks to withdraw his money, or because the transfer he initiated came through but at the local branch it results as already withdrawn. So look into this option carefully, since it depends on the service operating from where you have a bank account and here.

OR

You can set up a bank account in Uruguay, transfer your money from the UK to UY, and then go to UY now and then to withdraw some.

OR

You can look for an unofficial intermediary to whom you wire the money to from your UK bank account and he gives you ARS cash here, but it must be someone extremely reliable, not only for the transaction itself, but also for your safety when you head back to your Argentinian home. Tip-offs are extremely common here.


Your plan will work in Uruguay, for example. But I don't think UY is that much interesting. There are better Spanish-speaking country to live in at the moment.
 
Is there a way around this?
Do it all via Uruguay, open the account there and bring the money as needed in usd if possible to sell at blue rate. Serafina gave you a good array of choices. And magically you have about the double in ARS :)
 
Family of 4 is coming after 18 months. Everyone sounds so exited here in anticipation.
 
By the time you get here Macri will have long abolished the currency control and import restrictions - the Blu Dolar will be but a distant memory. You will be able to use the ATM - just like in any other country but North Korea and The Congo. Shelves will be overflowing with Malt Vinegar and Pimm's. BAexpats will be shut down because peanut butter will be omnipresent.
 
BTW - Exchange rates here are not manipulated by interest rates. They are falsely held down very low (making the peso way over-valued) by the government, one of the most common methods being the government spending its Dollar reserves to buy pesos, creating a false demand. Anything you know about how economics works in other parts of the world can be thrown out the window here :)

The estimated unofficial inflation here is supposed to be around 30% annually. I'm not convinced of that, I think it's more like 40%. Last I heard the government was finally reporting somewhere around 20-25%. Right off the bat, any prices we're talking about now will most likely be at least 15% higher when you come - assuming that things don't get worse, which is certainly not a given. (And assuming your arrival date was Jan 2016 and not 2017? Things could be much better in 2017, or they could be worse - we simply have no way of knowing what the future holds here)

If you have GBP, the current published official rate is a bit over 14 Pesos to 1 GBP. This is about the same rate that we can sell Dollars here on the black market as of today. Taking pesos out of ATMs here will get you the official GBP rate (which is why Nikad was talking about losing 50% of your money). Given the price of the Dollar to the Peso and the price of the Dollar to the GBP in real international markets (i.e., not here), it should be quite a bit higher on the black market here than the published official rate here. For example, the standard Dollar to GPB rate is roughly 1.5 to 1. Given a black market rate (called the blue market here) of 14 Dollars to the Peso, it should be something like 21 GBP to the Peso on the black market.The GBP may not have quite such a high value here on the black market simply because it may not be traded very much and everyone here is Dollar-crazy.

Since you didn't tell us how much in GBP you'll have each month (or I didn't see it), I don't know if what you're thinking in pesos may not even be higher than you are thinking if you could do something with cash on the black market. You could be looking somewhere around 70K pesos per month, which is a significant deal changer in my opinion.

People have mentioned the guarantee required to have a long-term lease. The laws here favor the renter heavily, so the owners have come up with a way to offset their exposure to risk - the guarantee is normally another person's apartment linked to your lease that will guarantee that you will not destroy the apartment or will not squat in the apartment without paying rent, etc. (Don't even ask "then what is the deposit for?" Heh.) The person and their apartment that was used in the guarantee, therefore, is at risk and that makes it difficult to get someone to give you a guarantee, not to mention you have to find someone to begin with who you know well enough to even ask.

Long-term leases are not usually furnished (though at least an oven and sometimes air conditioners may be included). This means you have to think about buying everything you need to furnish a home.

Otherwise, you are talking temporary rentals. They are furnished, but for the same bang for the buck are more expensive than long-term (except adding in the cost of furnishing a long-term apartment). Short term leases, by law, are limited to 6 months. It used to be that it was hard to find a temp apartment for more than a month or two at a time because they were in high demand for tourism, but that has fallen off quite a bit in the last couple of years and you may have more luck finding longer-term temporaries. After a second renewal of a 6-month contract, by law the contract automatically converts into a long-term lease, but many owners don't realize that and will lease to you for a full two years in 6 month increments and not realize they are exposed.

Most long-term leases here come with built-in inflation rates after the end of the first year. I was lucky to get 20%, which used to be the standard (even when inflation was around 5%!!), but many people are now seeing things like 30%, or 15% every 6 months. Temporary leases will often go up every 6 month lease expiration.

There are many other items to think about, but they aren't all coming to my head right now.

Here's a rough budget:

Fixed Costs (long term lease):
Deposit: 12,000 (1 month usually)
Commission: 24,000 (2 months usually)
Furnish: 70,000 (?? more?)

Total: 106,000

Monthly Costs:
Apartment: 12,000 (may be low, may be slightly high)
Bldg Expenses: 5,000 (only if long term lease)
Food: 8,000
Utilities: 2,000 (only if long term lease)
Transportation: 1,000 (includes some taxi as well as pub trans - may be high)
Spanish Classes: 1,500 (2 people twice a week, 130 pesos hour, 1.5 hours per class)
Kid's School: 1,200 (this is based on the 3 1/2 year old only?
Have a friend with a 3 1/2 year old who pays this much, could be less)

Total: 30,700

Notice that you may pay quite a bit more for a temporary apartment, but the extra expenses mentioned for long-term leases being removed by leasing short-term, will probably end up making the costs at least close to a wash, and when you factor in furnishing a long-term apartment, you are way ahead renting short term if you're only going to be here two years.

At the moment, it can be done at 50K total income per month, and still have roughly 20K leftover, if my prices are reasonably correct. I have a household with my wife and three girls (19, 17 and 14). We live in Recoleta, which can be more expensive than Palermo (depending on exactly where you live and what you rent, etc.). But I've based my numbers loosely on my per-person costs, hopefully reasonably adjusted for young 'uns.

But believe it or not, at the moment, that 20K isn't as big a margin as it seems. With inflation at around 30% (to be charitable imo), by the time you get here, your expenses will be around 36K, another 6 months they will have reached 40K or so. That's what I consider to be the best case scenario over the next year (although I'd love to be surprised). However, if you can get more value for your GBP than the official rate (i.e., don't depend at all on ATMs) then you will be much better off and can handle the inflation.

It all depends on whether the government allows the black market rate to remain the same or go even higher (or, if they let the Peso move toward its real value). At the beginning of the year, the Dollar hit a black market rate of 15 to 1 and then the government arrested a bunch of players in the market, took one bank's license to operate in Argentina and continues to harass the black market changers. The rate went down to 12 to 1 and has only this month gotten up to something more reasonable - who knows how long it will last.

Your best bet is probably temporary leases, but that could mean you are moving every so often, depending on how long you can rent there for. With great luck you may not have to move or only move once, with a little luck 2-3 times, without luck who knows.

Most people will probably groan at my long post, but if I were moving here I'd sure want as much info as I could get on the most important subjects of living here comfortably - current cost of living, understanding the inflation, the near requirement to deal with inflation on the black market, and how rentals work.

But you guys should be able to do it easily if you manage it correctly.
 
You can look for an unofficial intermediary to whom you wire the money to from your UK bank account and he gives you ARS cash here, but it must be someone extremely reliable, not only for the transaction itself, but also for your safety when you head back to your Argentinian home.

This is the method just about everybody I know uses. It is indeed imperative to find somebody reliable, but once you put down roots here this is easier than it sounds.

I can put you in touch with some Brits I know who do this. PM me and I'll get you details.

If your money is coming on a monthly basis from outside the country, then based on the past few years' experience you can count on zero inflation (there has been little to no inflation in dollar terms for the past few years). Of course, nobody knows what will happen under the next government.
 
I can only tell you El Queso that IMO those school costs are really low.

Right now (and these are as of today) - one of the private bilingual schools I looked at charges 17,000 per kid for the inscription fee and a full day of approximately 4K.

My SIL/BIL send their 3 YO daughter to a not fancy "bilingual" (i.e., an hour a day learning English) jardin in Palermo. 3000 pesos a month for a half day.

One of the "Saints" (more expensive bilingual schools) was 20K+ per kid for initiation fee. Monthly fee for full day for 3 Y was 4500 a month.

Expect costs to rise another 20% this year if things continue.

ETA - Also, no health insurance costs in your post. We are paying 5000+ right now a month for a family of 4 with OSDE 210 and that's a corporate rate.
 
As everyone has pointed out - there are some serious variables.

1) Predicting whether 50K would be enough in Jan '16 would be a stretch. Jan '17 - crystal ball would be required.
2) Let's say you meant Jan '16. The next question is are you talking about 50K in hand? Or gross (bruto)?
3) You mention you need to pay rent. Are you planning on renting a furnished apt? Or unfurnished?

Me personally - I wouldn't relocate my family for that kind of money. Even if it's net, you would be at best living a middle-middle class lifestyle.

Bilingual schools - you're looking at 5K plus a month per kid at least. Plus enrollment fee which can be one-time or annual. Think 10K plus per kid. a 3 BR apt furnished - prob 20K minimum. Health insurance (if not provided by your job) - 5K plus a month. That is 35K a month not including any kind of groceries, bills, eating out, traveling, etc.



Excellent Excellet ... as per citygirl ....you are left with 15K in hand or 500 pesos per day for food , clothing, etc ,At least 250 pesos a day for groceries, Then must manage 250 pesos left for ALL other expenses. One day out for Pizza for 4 is 500 pesos that wipes out 2 days of disposable income...! :cool:
 
I can only tell you El Queso that IMO those school costs are really low.

Right now (and these are as of today) - one of the private bilingual schools I looked at charges 17,000 per kid for the inscription fee and a full day of approximately 4K.

My SIL/BIL send their 3 YO daughter to a not fancy "bilingual" (i.e., an hour a day learning English) jardin in Palermo. 3000 pesos a month for a half day.

One of the "Saints" (more expensive bilingual schools) was 20K+ per kid for initiation fee. Monthly fee for full day for 3 Y was 4500 a month.

Expect costs to rise another 20% this year if things continue.

ETA - Also, no health insurance costs in your post. We are paying 5000+ right now a month for a family of 4 with OSDE 210 and that's a corporate rate.

I guess I'm out of touch about the school costs for bilingual schools at the age of 3 or so! I should have realized they would be much more than what my friend's grandkid is going to, which is not bilingual (just thought at that age it couldn't be that much more).

I also did indeed forget about the healthcare. While I think they can do better price-wise, it is still a consideration. We're paying a bit over 4000 at Hospital Aleman for 5 of us, and I'm over 50 (and therefore comprise the largest part of that), so it depends on where they would go as to how much it will cost - or if they even choose to get healthcare (which I would, personally, whole-heartedly advise they do, some reports of how good the public hospitals are notwithstanding)

I admit that I have a hard time trying to figure out what is a good salary to live on here - for others. I know I couldn't make it on 50K a month, but we're 3 adults, one nearly adult and a teenager. I see my brothers-in-law making it on 10K-15K a month (two of them with young ones) and hear so many people on here talking about how much less they live on than I could. Truth is, my first thoughts on the OPs request was "don't do it", but that was my own prejudice I figured :)

I think the biggest question is how much are their GBP worth here and how can they leverage that value to have more than 50K, assuming the OP didn't understand the horrible error of trying to get the money out of the ATMs.
 
I can only tell you El Queso that IMO those school costs are really low.

Right now (and these are as of today) - one of the private bilingual schools I looked at charges 17,000 per kid for the inscription fee and a full day of approximately 4K.

My SIL/BIL send their 3 YO daughter to a not fancy "bilingual" (i.e., an hour a day learning English) jardin in Palermo. 3000 pesos a month for a half day.

One of the "Saints" (more expensive bilingual schools) was 20K+ per kid for initiation fee. Monthly fee for full day for 3 Y was 4500 a month.

Expect costs to rise another 20% this year if things continue.

ETA - Also, no health insurance costs in your post. We are paying 5000+ right now a month for a family of 4 with OSDE 210 and that's a corporate rate.

And to think some of the parents at my kids school presented a petition to the director to complain about the 2.5% increase in pricing because they are now part of the ISP group. Fortunately my friends are all intelligent professionals who get that 2.5% is no big deal and especially for a tri-lingual school sending kids to Colombia university etc for a mere 509 euros a month at secondary level. Everyone should do a year´s sabbatical in Argentina, Venezuela, Zimbabwe or other high inflation culture to learn to be happy with the stable prices that their home economy offers!
 
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