Best way to stay in Argentina?

[davonz]

Practically speaking, is applying for this visa rentista externally the best way to go?

For me it was alot easier to get the rentista visa in NZ then in ARG, no need for documents to be translated, no need to wait in line for hours. And if something was worng or extra needed, is alot easier to get it sorted while in NZ.
I didnt need a ARG crimial record check, just the NZ. Infact what they wanted was:

[FONT=&quot]C) DOCUMENTS FOR THE VISA:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]A valid passport of at least one year validity from the date of entry into Argentina.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Birth Certificate legalized with the Apostille and its translation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Police Clearance legalized and translated– You have to submit a police clearance from all the countries you have lived more than six months in the last 5 years.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Marriage/Divorce Certificate (if applicable) legalized with the Apostille and its translation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]4 passport size photos[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Sworn declaration signed before the Head of the Consular Section stating that you have no criminal records in any other country.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Note: Documents in point 2, 3 and 4 issued by New Zealand authorities must be legalized by the Department of Internal Affairs NZ, please see www.dia.govt.nz/apostille for further information.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Documents that were issued in countries other than New Zealand: Please, check that the country is a signatory to The Hague Convention so your document needs the Apostille or contact your Embassy for information on the Authentication process (see www.dia.govt.nz/apostille). [/FONT]


So i provided my bithcertificated - just a photocopy they was certified by a JP. A police crimial record check for NZ. 4 x passport pics.
Plus the bankstatement/letter for income.

The sworn declaration was just the application form, that you sign infront of the consul. And they take your finger prints.

But check your local arg embassy as it might be slightly different.

The option for citizenship might also be a better option for you. For me i dont live the whole year in BSAS, i usually only spend 6 months there, and 6 months travelling so at the moment its not the best option for me.

I also dont want the arg tax office having the abilitiy to tax any external income - which from what i understand if you are a citizen you should declare all foreign earnings and assets, which they can then tax, not that any argentines do...

 

[steveinbsas]

As it happens, there's an Argentine consulate practically nextdoor, here in downtown Atlanta. Think I'll go investigate the visa rentista angle.

As I posted in September of 2010:

http://baexpats.org/newcomers-forum/7847-fbi-background-check-4.html

... I know a couple from GA who were told by the Argentine consulate in Atlanta that it would take several months (at the least) as the docs have to be sent to migraciones in BA for approval. They were also told they were the first ever to apply for the visa rentista there.

Hopefully, the consulate in Atlanta has more experience, and since the process has become more streamilinesd perhaps it won't take so long. If the docs need to be sent to Argentina it probably will take several months...at the least.

Do it, you have nothing to lose, and for me it was the only real option to stay there legally for more than the 3 months..

It is "legal" to extend your visa one time for 90 days at the office of migraciones, but once you do this you will have to "overstay" the extension and pay the $300 peso fee as you go to Uruguay to get a new 90 day visa. If you simply overstay you initial 90 day visa you are not "illegal" (your status is "irregular").

As Dr Rubilar points out, the greatest chance of receiving a deportation order is after being turned down for a resident visa in Argentina. Even then, you can get a writ from a judge blocking deportation (while you apply for citizenship).

 

[Davidglen77]

It is "legal" to extend your visa one time for 90 days at the office of migraciones, but once you do this you will have to "overstay" the extension and pay the $300 peso fee as you go to Uruguay to get a new 90 day visa. If you simply overstay you initial 90 day visa you are not "illegal" unless a judge so rules and that is highly unlikely.

I know this is hard to process, but no matter what you do you will never be "illegal" on Argentine soil. Nobody here will care whether you have a bunch of papers from migraciones, or anywhere else. The only thing you won't have is a DNI if you don't have residency, and if your work and money is outside of Argentina, you have nothing to worry about!

 

[steveinbsas]

For me it was alot easier to get the rentista visa in NZ then in ARG, no need for documents to be translated, no need to wait in line for hours. And if something was worng or extra needed, is alot easier to get it sorted while in NZ.
I didnt need a ARG crimial record check, just the NZ...

I think citizens of NZ have a much easier time getting work and rentista visas at the Argentine consulate in NZ than citizens of the USdoing the same in the States. Based on what I've read, Argentina and NZseem to have a much better relationship when it comes to immigration than Argentina and the US.

For me i dont live the whole year in BSAS, i usually only spend 6 months there, and 6 months travelling so at the moment its not the best option for me.

I also dont want the arg tax office having the abilitiy to tax any external income - which from what i understand if you are a citizen you should declare all foreign earnings and assets, which they can then tax, not that any argentines do...

Those with a visa rentista are now required to be in Argentina at least six months of the year in order to renew. This would subject your worldwide income to taxation in Argentina, but the consulate in NZ might not be as strict enforcing the six month rule.

If you (still) don't have a DNI, don't have a bank account, and are not registered with AFIP in Argentina (no CUITor CUIL) it might take them a long time get to you...and you probably will have left Argentina for good by then.

You could apply for a rentista visa, the only requirement is that you have to get x amount of income (and prove it with bank statement or some other means) from outside argentina... I think it is now US$2000 per month as they increased it last july.

 

[steveinbsas]

I know this is hard to process, but no matter what you do you will never be "illegal" on Argentine soil. Nobody here will care whether you have a bunch of papers from migraciones, or anywhere else. The only thing you won't have is a DNI if you don't have residency, and if your work and money is outside of Argentina, you have nothing to worry about!

I recall a couple posts about non-mercosur foreigners who had received "deportation" orders from migraciones when they were turned down for resident visas. One of them supposedly owned a "farm" and had been living in Argentina for at least five years.

Does anyone have first hand knowledge of any non-mercosur foreigner who has actually been deported for not having a "vaild" visa to be in Argentina...under any circumstances? If so, please be as specific as possible.

 

[steveinbsas]

Was your permanent renewal easier than the temp renewal?

Temporary renewals are granted the same day unless they ask for something else. For my second tempoary renewal they asked if I had an Argentine bank account (several months earlier they started a requirement that monthly wire transfers be made into an Argentine bank). I did not know about this requirement or have a bank account in Argentina so of course I had never made any transfers. I only had my ATM receipts and a letter from my US bank verifying that I could accessmy US "investment" income at ATMs in Argentina. They didn't even look at the ATM receipts, but told me to go to a bank near Plaza San Martin and get a paper saying I had signed up for an account. I would have to return to the bank with a utility bill in order to make a deposit and activate the acount. I was leaving for the US for six weeks and asked if I could activate the account and start making the "transfers" after I returned. The answer at both the bank and migraciones was yes.

Not long after I returned to Argentina they stopped requiring the wire transfers which would have cost $50 USD to send and about the same to receive in Argentina (almost 15% of the monthly income requirment for the visa rentista at the time). I did not return to the bank in Retiro to activate the account. The last thing I wanted was to have to do any banking in Retiro! I was also informed by my US bank that I would have to send a written athorization for each transfer and when I asked about receiving transfers here I was told I needed to have an account at Banco Nacion and the process of getting the funds out of the could be a real nightmare.

I eventually tried to open an account at two banks near my apartment in Recoleta one (Banco Frances and Galicia) but they both refused because I did not have a utility bill in my name. I never changed the phone, gas, or electric bills of my apartment to my name. I had just listed the apartment for sale and didn't want to spend the time to change these accounts prior to selling. I knew I had plently of time to wait until I was in a new place as migraciones would only need bank statements for the 60 days prior to renewal.

A few months later (thanks to the escribano of the buyer of my apartment), I met an accountant who had an office on the same floor as his. The accountant told me he could "certify" the ingressos (withdrawals) from my US bank at ATMs in Argentina. I told him migraciones didn't even look at my ATM receipts when I renewed my visa the previous year and he replied that was because the ATM receipts are not legal documents. He said he could create one that was legal...and did. This is something an immigration lawyer might have charged $600 USD to get for me...perhaps only paying the accountant $300 or $400 pesos. My lady friend from Uruguay asked at migraciones if they would accept the certification of ingresos from the accountant instead of bank statements. The answer was yes.

For my third renewal and upgrade to permanent residency I took the letter the accountant wrote that certified that the ATM withdrawals were from my bank account in the US (there was a sello on the back of his letter that made it a legal document). I also has an updated letter (with the Apostille) from an officer at my US bank that verrified my monthly income and confirmed that I could access the funds at ATMs in Argentina. I did not present any bank statements or even the annual statement from the broker who sent the checks to the bank each month. Migraciones never asked for either of these when I applied for my visa in 2006 or for any of the renewals. I understand the bank statements are now mandatory, but I don't think wire transfers are required.

Things can change very quickly at migraciones, but the folks there can be reasonable and accomodating...at least they were with me. When I first applied for my visa on 2006 they required photocopies of my ATM receipts and I was able to submit a letter from my home town police department (without fingerprints) in lieu if an FBI report with Apostille (which is now required with fingerprints and the Apostille...without exception) when applying for the resident visas in Argentina. By coincidence, I always dealt with the same woman for all three renewals and I think that worked in my favor. She always rememberd me and even referred to my visa as a pensionado the last time I was there (even though I thought I had a visa rentista for three years).

It took two weeks for my permanent residency to be granted. They notified me by telephone when the cambio was approved and told me to return the next day. I did, only to discover that my file had been "lost" overnight. Fortunately, the change to permanent residency was already in the computer system. I still had to pay an additional $50 pesos to get a new certificate of permanent residency (as if I was the one who lost it) to take to the registro to get the change noted in my DNI. When I went to the registro they didn't ask for the certificate. They could see the cambio in their computer.

Edit: When I went for the second renewal, another expat I knew was waiting for his prorroga (extension/renewal). He told me he had been there a few days earlier but they told him he needed a new Argentine criminal report (antecedentes penales). I didn't have one so I left migraciones, made a turno for the report by phone and went to the office on Piedras (my turno was 90 minutes after I made the call). I got the report the next afternoon and returned to migraciones the following morning. I submitted my papers...one at a time as I was asked for them. The last was the criminal report and it was on top of the file that was in my lap. The girl never asked me for it, and I don't think she saw it, either. Her supervisor didn't ask for it and neither did the unseen "jefe" that gives the final approval. They seemed more concerned that I make arrangements to open a bank account so I could start making the wire transfers (which I never had to do).

 

[AlexanderB]

Those with a visa rentista are now required to be in Argentina at least six months of the year. This would subject your worldwide income to taxation in Argentina, but the consulate in NZ might not be as strict enforcing the six month rule.

That would be a bit of a show-stopper for me. Since my income is from my US-based business, it would be much more difficult to argue to the IRS that it's earned elsewhere and taxed elsewhere and ought to be tax-exempt (up to the allowed limit), effectively subjecting me to double taxation.

 

[John.St]

Treaties for the avoidance of international double taxation - AFIP - Administración Federal - country list

http://www.afip.gob.ar/institucional/convenios.asp

 

[steveinbsas]

That would be a bit of a show-stopper for me. Since my income is from my US-based business, it would be much more difficult to argue to the IRS that it's earned elsewhere and taxed elsewhere and ought to be tax-exempt (up to the allowed limit), effectively subjecting me to double taxation.

If you are depositing anywhere near $2000 USD per month into an Argentine bank account you can expect the Argentine tax man to want some of it. You also have to live and work outside of the US for at least 330 days per year to qualify for the exemption (approx $90,000 USD).

If the income is from a US business and you are not working and being paid in Argentina I doubt the IRS would grant the foreign earned income exemption. You would still have to pay the FICA on all of the earnings unless you are paying a similar tax in Argentina or are only receiving dividends from your business (as opposed to a salary).

Argentina would also want to tax (bienes personales tax) you on all of your assets in the US and, as you would have to reveal the "source" of your income to qualify for the visa, they would know more about your business than you would like.

 

[AlexanderB]

If you are depositing anywhere near $2000 USD per month into an Argentine bank account you can expect the Argentine tax man to want some of it. You also have to live and work outside of the US for at least 330 days per year to qualify for the exemption (approx $90,000 USD).

You would still have to pay the FICA on all of the earnings unless you are receiving dividends from your business (as opposed to a salary).

Argentina would also want to tax (bienes personales tax) you on all of your assets in the US and, as you would have to reveal the "source" of your income to qualify for the visa, they would know more about your business than you would like.

Yep, good advice. I have no intention of depositing my earnings into an Argentine bank. I am fine with the US taxing it. What I don't want is for the Argentines to attempt to tax it. I don't expect to have any Argentine clients, though that would be neat.

Sounds like permatourism is the way.