Bolsonaro takes office :/

[London2Baires]

For fachism to rise, all that is needed is for good people to stay silent. Raise your Voices!


"Bolsonaro llamó a 'combatir la ideología de género' y prometió 'respaldo a policías' que maten delincuentes"

"...instó hoy a que se brinde el 'respaldo jurídico de los policías', con una legislación que los exima de culpa cuando eliminan a sospechosos en un enfrentamiento armado."

https://m.ambito.com/bolsonaro-llam...aldo-policias-que-maten-delincuentes-n5008304

 

[jantango]

 

[camberiu]

Any mention on going to war with Argentina AND Venezuela yet? Gay concentration camps?
Funny that when Lula and Dilma were openly supporting Cuba, Venezuela (And Kristina), and trying to pass laws that gave government control of the press, I could hear none of the anti-authoritarian voices that are so loud right now.

 

[London2Baires]

Some interesting coverage from democracynow, as usual.

Any mention on going to war with Argentina AND Venezuela yet? Gay concentration camps?
Funny that when Lula and Dilma were openly supporting Cuba, Venezuela (And Kristina), and trying to pass laws that gave government control of the press, I could hear none of the anti-authoritarian voices that are so loud right now.

Did you actually watch the video, or read the article. Because instead of engaging in the usual whataboutism, or giving extreme examples. You could look at the actual facts and quotes from this 'leader' and at the least show some concern. But I guess apologism and whataboutism when it comes to authoratarian, right wing, regressive movements and their respective charismatic charlatans, i mean leaders, is commonplace these days.

Each to their own, lets just hope history doesn't repeat itself in too horrific a way. -.-

 

[camberiu]

Some interesting coverage from democracynow, as usual.



Did you actually watch the video, or read the article.

Yes, many many times. He is not a great guy. At all. But there is a difference between genuine criticism (which he deserves) and hypocritical hysteria, which is what you and many on the press are demonstrating.
Brazil has a Constitution, an independent judiciary, an independent congress (which Bolsonaro does not hold a controlling majority) a free press that mostly hates him and he has an extremely high rejection rate by over 40% of the Brazilian population.
So no, "history will not repeat itself on a horrific way". That is just bullshit hysteria based on political preferences. And if you what to call the act of pointing out hypocrisy "whataboutism", go right ahead.

 

[London2Baires]

Yes, many many times. He is not a great guy. At all. But there is a difference between genuine criticism (which he deserves) and hypocritical hysteria, which is what you and many on the press are demonstrating.
Brazil has a Constitution, an independent judiciary, an independent congress (which Bolsonaro does not hold a controlling majority) a free press that mostly hates him and he has an extremely high rejection rate by over 40% of the Brazilian population.
So no, "history will not repeat itself on a horrific way". That is just bullshit hysteria based on political preferences.

So you don't think that quotes where he talks about how the military dictatorship in Brazil was great, but made a big mistake of not killing enough indigenous peoples like other regional dictatorships had done. Or when he says he wants the law to allow police to have immunity from prosecution when it comes to any killings they commit while in service (in other words police could easily become death squads). Or when he makes clear references to rolling back decades of civil rights progress when it comes to the LGBT community. Or when he populates a significant proportion of his political cabinet appointments with military instead of political people; I could go on, but to not see the warning signs, and to call it hysteria to point out very strong ideological connections between Bolsonaro's stated beliefs and aims with other fascist and authoritarian regimes. To ignore that is folly.

 

[camberiu]

So you don't think that quotes where he talks about how the military dictatorship in Brazil was great, but made a big mistake of not killing enough indigenous peoples like other regional dictatorships had done.

There is a HUGE difference between what he wants/wishes and what he can actually do on a functional Constitutional Republic. He is not an absolute monarch. He is a severely constrained president.
Lula and Dilma had terrible quotes too, praising murderous regimes across Latin America, including Fidel Castro and Che Guevara, who actually criminalized homosexuality.
Lula and Dilma wished that they could have done terrible things, including arresting critics and dissidents, nationalizing private property and censoring newspapers. They did not do it because Brazil is a functional constitutional republic. They were constrained as much as Bolsonaro will be.
If your country's institutions work, electing an idiot/madman is not the end of the world. If the institutions don't work, then your problems are much deeper than the elected madman.

 

[London2Baires]

There is a HUGE difference between what he wants/wishes and what he can actually do on a functional Constitutional Republic. He is not an absolute monarch. He is a severely constrained president.
Lula and Dilma had terrible quotes too, praising murderous regimes across Latin America, including Fidel Castro and Che Guevara, who actually criminalized homosexuality.
Lula and Dilma wished that they could have done terrible things, including arresting critics and dissidents, nationalizing private property and censoring newspapers. They did not do it because Brazil is a functional constitutional republic. They were constrained as much as Bolsonaro will be.
If your country's institutions work, electing an idiot/madman is not the end of the world. If the institutions don't work, then your problems are much deeper than the elected madman.

I very much hope that you are right, I just don't think the institutions in our modern democracies are anywhere near as robust as you suppose. Look at the current geo-political status quo in so far as democratic states go, does this look like a golden age of democracy to you?

To me it looks like we are at a crossroads where long standing political alliances and trade relations are in serious flux across the globe. Where many modern democracies are shifing further towards right wing populism, nationalism, xenophobia and isolationism.

The democratic populations are often ill informed on actual policy, instead being happy to read short undetailed propaganda slogans, as if this is enough to protect democracy and to take seriously the democratic responsibility. Within this context, and with the likely global recession which is brewing for 2019, it could easily lay the groundwork for some pretty nasty stuff.

At the very least we should be raising our voices and be very concerned with the possibilities.

I don't think its good enough to just say; ohh it will be fine, the checks and balances will save us.

Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst!

 

[camberiu]

I very much hope that you are right, I just don't think the institutions in our modern democracies are anywhere near as robust as you suppose.

Then why do you worry about Bolsonaro? If you think most modern democracies are exposed to a single catastrophic point of failure, then our problems are much deeper and fundamental, and he is just a blip at that point. You should be raging against the whole system, not a president from a single country.

 

[London2Baires]

Then why do you worry about Bolsonaro? If you think most modern democracies are exposed to a single catastrophic point of failure, then our problems are much deeper and fundamental, and he is just a blip at that point. You should be raging against the whole system, not a president from a single country.

I don't think most modern democracies will have a single catastrophic failure point as you say. I'm just trying to say that given the global context, we are living in a period of history which is high risk when it comes to democratic polities. Brazil is particularly at high risk because of Bolsonaro; he adds to the already existing global/systemic problems/risks by putting more fuel on the fire so to speak.

As the world's fourth largest democracy, and my neighbor, it is only right to be concerned, informed and foster debate in this regard.

It is precisely because I think democracies can be saved from the dangers of nationalism and right wing populism that I think it's important to shine a light on whats going on.

Silence, complacency, apologism and well meaning but misplaced hope in institutions can be just as dangerous as actually supporting these destructive and damaging democratic regimes.