Bono Argentino!??!!?

[LostinBA]

There is no one single argentine that is innocent of money laundering in small or big scale. There dolar blue is all about that. You don t need to be in the drug busisness neither to be a criminal, this is so cultural that everybody behaves like that.

I ask you Shoush, do you sell your dollars to the Central Bank or to the black market? Do you know that it is crime? So, please.

Camberiu, sorry if I have different ideas. I don t troll, I enjoy debates. We don t have to agree but the threads that are a vomit of hate against the President are just boring. Do you have an idea, debate it.

But there is no debate here...Cristina could take a dump (i.e kaka) on the sidewalk, declare that it's gold bricks and you'd probably believe it. You are a F-O-O-L

 

[Bajo_cero2]

BCRA/Argentina Government. Around B-, really close to default categorization.

I disagree with you. There are about 40 billion dollars on the Central Bank accounts. Spain, Greece, Italy are close to defaul.
Facts?

Is released under Arg legislation, it will not trade in the US, that's why you need to wire the money to an Argentinian bank, you can't buy from another country. It will behave like any other bond/stock traded in the local stock market, meaning you can buy it or sell it here

That s because this is called argentine bond. It is only for argentines.

Pro: It will pay you 4% anually wohooo

You are missing the point. There is no cost to make the black money white. No fines, no tax, it is an amnesty for argentines who evaded taxes but once on the system, they have to start paying them.
So, you saved 21% of paying the iva plus 35 of tax income plus some other tax. On the other hand the government gets the money for developing the energy industry at a low price. Here we should be honest: nobody else is going to lend Argentina the money to develop the energy industry.

Behind this law is the idea of Peron that only argentines are going to save argentina, united.
In some other thread this week we were debating why Chile is doing better. One of the reasons is that Chileans invest in Chile while Argetines takes the money away.

Cons: Argentina can repay you at the end in pesos if they want to.

There is no reason for that. However, in that case you go to Court and you claim that they enforce the precedents from corralito. I don t know if you were here when the real corralito happens but there were over 300.000 claims and they won them all and nobody lost money.

Depending on who you are, they can investigate you because you had money not declarated outside. Probably, it wont happen, but if I'm in the opposition, I won't took a chance of them having proof to blackmail me in the future. This smells like a trap.

Facts please. The law is an amnesty. It already happend before but that time the was a cost to get into the amnesty and 4 billion dollars got in. Somebody was prosecuted? No.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

But there is no debate here...Cristina could take a dump (i.e kaka) on the sidewalk, declare that it's gold bricks and you'd probably believe it. You are a F-O-O-L

You guys get offended when sometimes i suggest that you are missinformated. Argentine bonds were always very profitable. This ones comes with a no less than 55% of profit from the beginning regarding the tax they evaded.

http://www.26noticias.com.ar/bonos-argentinos-siguen-siendo-muy-rentables-y-la-bolsa-portena-lo-capitaliza-96358.html

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Vomit of hate? She is creating a bond that will be used for money launderers to launder money that could came from drugs-human trafficking-gun dealers because they will not ask how they got that money. One thing is having undeclared money that comes from a legit source (regular desk job --> blue market). Another thing is having dollars because you have an illicit business. The bond is allowing those people to use their money here to do whatever they want (like buying properties) because they are putting articles in the law to prevent any sort of investigation. You don't enjoy debates, that's why you ran away when I show you how easy is for her (and everyone who is dirty as her) to participate in this.

I can't believe that you are actually a lawyer.

You are guessing in a topic you don t know. In fact, yes i m a local lawyer and that is is wiser to ask because here we are not equals.
When you change dollars at the bank instead of doing laundry, you have to sign an affidavit asserting that this money does not come from illegal activities.

You are assuming that black money belongs to criminals while in this country companies normally declares 50% of the income and 30 up to 50% of the people works under the table.

When i just started the project about citizenship, i lived that year on basis on my savings in dollars and i changed them at the bank. I got an AFIP letter and i had to explained where they came from. So, those affidavits work.

Argentina had signed international treaties against money laundry from illegal war weapons, slavery, pimps, drugs, etc, so, i guess that you have to wait to see how is the law instead of watching the tv show. I have worked in many high profile cases that were on the news and my experience is that the info in the media usually sucks.

So, wait and see what the law says.

 

[Gringoboy]

Facts please. The law is an amnesty. It already happend before but that time the was a cost to get into the amnesty and 4 billion dollars got in. Somebody was prosecuted? No.

You talking about the amnesty in 2009?
If that's the case, it's a known fact that only a small fraction of that 4b came back.

 

[dennisr]

Seems that there are 40 billion abroad. Money enough to make the investments that YPF needs for stop importing 12 billions in energy.

Regards

Citizens have the bucks, all that is needed is credibiity.

"En total los argentinos tienen la cifra de u$s200.000 millones afuera y no me refiero sólo a los grandes magnates sino a todos los ahorristas"
http://www.iprofesional.com/notas/160407-Ex-director-del-FMI-advierte-que-con-el-blanqueo-Argentina-sera-aliada-de-quienes-lavan-dinero

 

[nativexpat]

Behind this law is the idea of Peron that only argentines are going to save argentina, united.

Hahaha c'mon! "Save Argentina, united". Save it from what? (typical paranoid argument, "they" don't want us to grow, we are helpless little children). Never have I seen Argentina so divided... and it is all thanks to all those rants about "oligarcas" and "clase obrera" which the K's love to bring on the table.

No one needs to be saved. The only salvation this country deserves is to get rid of these messianic clowns. Each one of us has the tools to make our country better. We just need better education policies aimed at teaching children about leadership and the power to make a difference - and not about the "poor little Indians that got ripped off by the white Spanish conquerors". Grow up. Take charge. Look forward and not behind.

 

[Inferno.]

You are assuming that black money belongs to criminals while in this country companies normally declares 50% of the income and 30 up to 50% of the people works under the table.

It belongs to criminals. They are looking dollars from criminals. Think a little about it. If the money comes from a legal source, but it was not declared, they can just go to the country they have the money deposited and bring it here even if it is 2,000,000 USD because the AFIP allows that. You will need to sign papers proving the legal source of the money, and thats it. Then you declare it in your tax declarations.

IF the money doesnt have a legal source, you CANT do this. You can't wire yourself the money. This new bond CAN, and WILL be bougth with money that came from any type of business. Why? Because, as stated above, the LAW DOESN'T CHECK THE ORIGIN OF THE FUNDS. Is the reason this is making that much noise.

Argentina had signed international treaties against money laundry from illegal war weapons, slavery, pimps, drugs, etc, so, i guess that you have to wait to see how is the law instead of watching the tv show. I have worked in many high profile cases that were on the news and my experience is that the info in the media usually sucks.

So, wait and see what the law says.

You must be joking. You are talking about guessing and you are here guessing where I found out about this or how my opinion was formed? I read the proposed law, I understand about the stock market and I even gave you the article (9) that explicit says that the origin of the funds WILL NOT be checked. How will they even find out if the money came from weapons, slavery, pimps.. IF THEY DO NOT CARE WHERE IT CAME. Again, picture.

I don't have to wait and see what the law says because I already read it.

I disagree with you. There are about 40 billion dollars on the Central Bank accounts. Spain, Greece, Italy are close to defaul.
Facts?

Now you are making a fool out out yourself. He asked about credit ratings. S&P gave us a B-, Ftich CC and Moody's B3. They are really close to the "default category". This is a fact, you can't disagree with a fact. You may disagree with the rating and how they see us, but not with the fact that they gave us that note that is indeed close to their default category.

That s because this is called argentine bond. It is only for argentines.

If you are going to discuss like this, please save it and stick with what you do know. Boden 2015 is an argentinian bond and trades in the NYSE market as Boden 2015 D. It was released under the Kirchner administration on October 3, 2005.. BDED can be bought here (because it is and Argentinian bond) and in NY because it trades both ways. BP15, BP18, BP21, BPLD, BPMD, Discount U$S, Global 2017, etc. Those ARE argentinians bonds. They trade in USA too and the legal owner (and the one that has to pay for them) is the argentina's govermnent.

You are missing the point. There is no cost to make the black money white. No fines, no tax, it is an amnesty for argentines who evaded taxes but once on the system, they have to start paying them.

Yes, they are requesting money to thief, money launderes, drug lords, etc, because as stated above, they law is making it very clear. They will not check the source of the funds. So you may have a business selling prostitutes to-from vietnam and they will not ask you how you got those 5 millions dollars you are now using to bond these bonds.

It they wanted to make a legit business, they just have to point to launch a bond for "undeclared money", not "undeclared money + we will not check if you bought this using a legal business institution"

There is no reason for that. However, in that case you go to Court and you claim that they enforce the precedents from corralito. I don t know if you were here when the real corralito happens but there were over 300.000 claims and they won them all and nobody lost money.

No reason for default? You don't really understand how a bond works right? In 2001 the country went into default. The bonds were not paid in the amount they should, that's why we had the Plan Canje. The bonds were paid at a rate of 25/30 cents the dollar (meaning, 1/3 of the original ammount). The court did not do anything to it because a country CAN go into default and not pay these obligations at the original rate. Check the vulture fund's trial and see that they are battling with argentina to get the 100% payment of those original debts, the thing you are saying here to do. So, once again, you don't get the point because the corralito is different from a bond, you are mixing both things.

Facts please. The law is an amnesty. It already happend before but that time the was a cost to get into the amnesty and 4 billion dollars got in. Somebody was prosecuted? No.

Do you want a fact from something that could happen in the future? I left my crystal ball in my other coat. Well, give me you a fact that this wont happen in the future. There is no way to state a fact in a future event, it defies logic to ask for that.

I enjoy a healthy debate, but this is not one of them. You are just trying to promote this govermnent like a good thing any chance you get, even in a thread that shows how they are launching a bond to allow money from the black market (real black market, guns, wars, druglors) into this country. That is hardly a good thing under my point of view.

You are guessing in a topic you don t know.

Instead of dismissing my points, try to make one for yourself that makes sense. You are only doing pro-government propaganda even if they are launching a full-scale measure to launder money.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Only the truly gullible, or the truly guilty, would participate in this. Since when are Argentine government guarantees worth the bytes they're disseminated on?

 

[Yogur griego]

Does someone have an article that would explain this situation? I am not very much into this particular subject and this discussion only confuses me even more.