Bribed by a Federal Police Officer

[mendozanow]

Why do Argentines come onto this site if they find the open sharing and opinions offensive?

Many do, because they find that foreigners often offer the best info and insights about Argenitna.

When I go running in the huge park in Mendoza, Argentines from other cities (especially Porteños) often go to great lengths to ask me and other foreigners for information, because they know we are more knowledgeable and sharing about a place than the native locals. They also know we will give clear and no-nonsense recommendations about places to go and not go.

All one has to do is go on the Spanish-language "foros" in Argentina to see what crap and useless talk there is, especially vile comments about foreigners there. When I ask simple questions for simple facts without giving opinions there, adding that I am Canadian, I get all kinds of insults and suggestions about my being a foreigner here and that I should just shutup and pay whatever I am told to pay.

We should be able to say what we like without offending a few Argentine lurkers with chips on their shoulders. Nobody is here to insult Argentines. We just want to share info and our feelings. you should hear what Argentines say to each other in North America about their host countries!

 

[Guillo]

Its not "Argentines", we are all individuals. In this particular subject, I wouldn't think of defending the corrupt practices. You can resist on principle, but regrettably its the way of the land here.

 

[John.St]

Why do Argentines come onto this site if they find the open sharing and opinions offensive?

Many do, because they find that foreigners often offer the best info and insights about Argenitna.

Problem is of course, that we criticise more often than we praise, simply because we need to get a load off our shoulders and use the expats forum to do so.

For me - I know for you too - and I am sure for many if not most expats it's worth reminding our Argentino friends and foes, that we are here and not somewhere else because we like Argentina with all its faults better than most other places we know.

4½ years ago I made up a list of 12 places where I would like to live, places I already knew (had visited Mendoza 11 or 12 times before settling here).

No. 1 is Morelia, Mexico, but the drug war keeps me away.
No. 2 is La Serena, Chile, but after living there half a year I realized it's too small.
No. 3 is Mendoza, where I have been living for close to three years and never regretted.
No. 4 to 12 are OK, but not needed.

Don't forget we actually like you Argentinos, but sometimes you are "a little too much" to bear

 

[sesamosinsal]

I've been in and out of Argentina since 2007, so the idea of it happening is not something strange to me. It's just uncomfortable when it does. It may be part of the system, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it. I'm not criticizing those who pay bribes, as they seem necessary in some cases to get things done. Nonetheless, people should voice their disgust.

For what it's worth, I got the certificate this morning (on a Saturday?!). I was told that it would be Monday or Tuesday when they could get it to me. Interesting..

 

[theargie]

- and the Moon is made of green cheese.

Why are some people in denial of unpleasant facts?

Hellek gave a link to the corruption index http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

What is Argentina's score?

If you want to stop an unpleasant practice, the first step is to acknowledge its existence.

Why do Argentines come onto this site if they find the open sharing and opinions offensive?

We should be able to say what we like without offending a few Argentine lurkers with chips on their shoulders. Nobody is here to insult Argentines. We just want to share info and our feelings. you should hear what Argentines say to each other in North America about their host countries!

John and Mendozanow,
I think I expressed myself clearly enough, but I can't be 100% sure. The fact is: You totally got me wrong.

What I found offensive, and will ALWAYS find offensive, is Generalization. Of course there's a lot of corruption here! a LOT! Politicians, police officers, public servants, etc. I know the rankings, and I know the extremely low reputation our country has in terms of gov't transparency.

What I tried to say is that a lot of people here tend to generalize and talk about "argentinos" as a big mass that behave in the same way... "argentines are corrupt, argentines are this, do this, do that.." as if we all did that. That's what I find kinda insulting. Not the criticism.

Actually I love to hear what most of the people criticize here, because it shows proof that I am not the only one who thinks that a lot of the things that most argentines consider "normal" just shouldn't be. So John, I do acknowledge, and I always try to do something to help changing this.

So again, sorry if I sounded agressive in my last comment, it wasn't the intention and I totally agree with criticisim (I prob. do criticise my country more than most of the expats here) but I do not agree with generalization.
I hate when Argentines talk about americans as if they were all "rednecks" or ignorant, or when they say spaniards are stupid, or peruvians are thieves, etc.

Allright, have a great weekend!!

 

[fifs2]

I had no gas for 3 months as the inspector came by to visit some new Metrogas works in the street and they pretty much turned off all our neighbours gas and gave us a paper to say we needed some extra ventilation in the kitchen. Needless to say we did the required works with a gasistra matriculada but the inspector returned one Friday night at 7pm to say it wasnt good enough and he invented a new list of requirements right in front of me whilst I sobbed alongside my sick baby.

To cut a long story short a friend helped us turn on the gas illegally so the kids could at least have hot water baths every 2 days and we ended up leaving an envelope for the inspector which he accepted on his 4th visit..I foolishly tried to offer him the money in his hand on the 3rd visit but he said "I cannot accept that, you might be filming me"...so it's about knowing when to bribve,how much and in what way. I wante to make a denuncia for the whole corrupt nature of the system but was warned I would never have gas again if I did so.
Lesson learnt...go with the flow sometimes. It's not ethical or pleasant buit neither is it killing people...and since I committed a crime by turning on my own gas I guess I'm as bad as they are.

 

[TheBlackHand]

So you admit to bribing a uniformed police officer instead of owning up to your crime. Sounds like you committed two crimes.

Our offense was VERY minor and did not deserve a report nor bribe.

 

[clooz]

What I found offensive, and will ALWAYS find offensive, is Generalization.

I think that what you are objecting to as offensive is not just generalization but sweeping generalization. If a sweeping generalization defames, the remedy that protects free expression is to sue for defamation after the fact.

Generalization in common-sense speech is essential to every day life. The generalization, I like chocolate, is true. I haven't tasted every kind of chocolate on the planet, but I still say I like chocolate. A generalization in common speech does not mean all.

 

[Hache]

Why do Argentines come onto this site if they find the open sharing and opinions offensive?

Many do, because they find that foreigners often offer the best info and insights about Argenitna.

When I go running in the huge park in Mendoza, Argentines from other cities (especially Porteños) often go to great lengths to ask me and other foreigners for information, because they know we are more knowledgeable and sharing about a place than the native locals. They also know we will give clear and no-nonsense recommendations about places to go and not go.

All one has to do is go on the Spanish-language "foros" in Argentina to see what crap and useless talk there is, especially vile comments about foreigners there. When I ask simple questions for simple facts without giving opinions there, adding that I am Canadian, I get all kinds of insults and suggestions about my being a foreigner here and that I should just shutup and pay whatever I am told to pay.

We should be able to say what we like without offending a few Argentine lurkers with chips on their shoulders. Nobody is here to insult Argentines. We just want to share info and our feelings. you should hear what Argentines say to each other in North America about their host countries!

Mendozanow, I give you a 10. I hope every local in this board reads this.

I do believe in the outsider's objectivity and most of the posts I read here are food for thought. If I found a message offensive, after giving it some thought the anger turned to shameful awareness. I'm yet to read an outright offensive post here.

It was when I started using this board as a place for "English practice" that I began losing objectivity myself and missing the points being made. In order to appreciate the outsider's objectivity, I must stay pretty much outside myself. I'm still struggling for balance, and I take your post as a kind reminder.

About the Spanish foros in general: They're flaming ranges, really. A bunch of crazy people shouting at each other without saying anything with real meaning. Very few constructive opinion. It's all about seeing who's got the biggest d*ck. It makes sad to admit that foreigners are probably at the bottom of their food chain, yet I'm glad I'm not wasting my time there.

Thanks again.

 

[Hache]

What I found offensive, and will ALWAYS find offensive, is Generalization.

Theargie, I know what you mean but clooz is right:

I think that what you are objecting to as offensive is not just generalization but sweeping generalization. If a sweeping generalization defames, the remedy that protects free expression is to sue for defamation after the fact.

Generalization in common-sense speech is essential to every day life. The generalization, I like chocolate, is true. I haven't tasted every kind of chocolate on the planet, but I still say I like chocolate. A generalization in common speech does not mean all.

Rhetorical generalization should be taken just as that: rhetorical. Remember this is a foreigners board, and don't expect anything like "I know I'm generalizing" or "no mean to offend anyone" because the messages don't go to locals but to other foreigners whom in most cases recognize a rhetorical generalization.

My advice is don't focus on the offensive-like spots and try to get the big picture. Once offended, you're biased and pretty much wasting your time.

My regards, and take it easy.