Buenos Aires to clean up dog poop on city streets

[Davidglen77]

Is there such a thing as citizen's arrest in Argentina? I have often wondered whether I, or any person, witnessing a violation of law has the right to detain the offender - using as much physical force as is reasonably necessary - and to bring the offender into a police station or to a police officer.
This assumes not cleaning up after one's dog was an offense prior to the new law.

Citizen´s arrest does not apply when you are talking about misdemeanors, it applies to felony arrest, so if you try and detain somebody for leaving dog poop on the sidewalk you will probably have a lawsuit filed against you for violating their civil rights, false imprisonment and or freedom.

My neighbor was really angry about her neighbors walking her dogs and pooping in her front garden. So she had a security camera installed and recorded who was doing the pooping. She uploaded the videos to facebook and her garden then became poop free.

And please don't tie up the police with crap (LOL) like this, just deal with it. We need the police involved in more serious incidents.......

 

[steveinbsas]

It would be interesting to see how well this law would be "obeyed" by the "professional" dogs walkers. Many of them (walking up to ten dogs at the same time) never even stop long enough to allow the dogs to "assume the position" to take care of business. It's hard to imagine them actually cleaning up after each pup or fearing legal consequences if such a law is ever passed. They are not easily intimidated or fooled (like some of us).

 

[Canick]

just to be clear...this was an april fools right?

 

[dr__dawggy]

just to be clear...this was an april fools right?

Yes..it was an April fools joke.

 

[Quinn]

And it's sad that it's just a joke. It's actually one of the pieces of legislation I've been working on since getting to BA (came here to do animal rescue). The article is a comical take on an noted issue with living in BA. But the basics remain: it makes sense to pass legislation. Of course, it's not about having Police Academy: Citizens on Patrol or having officers enforce the issue.

It's actually pretty simple:

1) pass law that owners are required by law to pick up after their animal
2) place the necessary signs around the city noting the law/fine amount
3) any fines collected can indeed be used to fund the shelters (with the obvious Argentine government kickback percentage that would be pocked for other causes).

Enforcement ISN'T the priority, it's the deterrence factor. Just by passing a law and making it public, you cut back on the problem. Enforcement, like in any other country or city, is limited to when an officer sees an incident happen. These laws have existed in many US cities and fines are seldom issued anymore...because the deterrence factor has been successful: when a law formally exists, it's easier to have people fall in line with the desired behavior.

 

[TomAtAlki]

I've heard that there is a dog poop law on the books. Maybe one of the BAExpat attorneys could verify that. Over the last 4 years I've noticed the number of people who pick up the poop has gone from zero to seeing several people a day cleaning up after their dogs. One lady cleaned up outside of my apartment while we were on the deck and we gave her a standing ovation.

 

[Sleuth]

I've heard that there is a dog poop law on the books. Maybe one of the BAExpat attorneys could verify that. Over the last 4 years I've noticed the number of people who pick up the poop has gone from zero to seeing several people a day cleaning up after their dogs. One lady cleaned up outside of my apartment while we were on the deck and we gave her a standing ovation.

There is:
http://www.argentinepost.com/2008/07/portenos-perdurable-poop-problem-solved.html

rarely enforced...

The city of Buenos Aires actually has a law that calls for dog owners to be fined if they allow their animals to defecate on public land. But the law is virtually never enforced. Two years ago La Nación published a story that said the city had 15 officials assigned to enforcing dog laws. But in all of 2005 the officials gave out just two excrement-related fines. The fines totaled just 25 pesos each. So, in total, in 2005 Porteños were fined only 50 pesos for allowing their animals to dump 25,500 tons worth of feces throughout the city. Clearly, another approach is needed.

 

[steveinbsas]

"Two years ago La Nación published a story that said the city had 15 officials assigned to enforcing dog laws. But in all of 2005 the officials gave out just two excrement-related fines. The fines totaled just 25 pesos each. So, in total, in 2005 Porteños were fined only 50 pesos for allowing their animals to dump 25,500 tons worth of feces throughout the city. Clearly, another approach is needed."

This is a clear case of insufficient training.

The 15 officials simply need to be taken outside and have their noses rubbed in it...

As often as it takes for them to learn how to do their business.

 

[bernardinho1961]

Ever heard of anyone actually using citizen's arrest in the US? I haven't. I bet the person making the citizen's arrest would get in more trouble than the person doing the crime -- kidnapping, lawsuit for potentially harming the person, etc.

I'll take the bet. The fact that you never heard of anyone using (making a) citizen's arrest is more of a commentary on the limits of your knowledge than the frequency of such arrests in US jurisdictions. Security personnel in all kinds of business establishments routinely make citizen's arrests of shoplifters, vagrants, con men, drunk and disorderly persons, etc. In a prior life I used to train such security personnel on how to make such arrests. They restrain the offender, explain why, and then call the police to continue the criminal process. Reasonable physical force is allowed to restrain the offender.
Far from constituting a dictatorial act (hard to comprehend that silly accusation) I think the right to arrest lawbreakers benefits society. If a person is breaking the law (even a misdemeanor) what is so bad about allowing private citizens to detain and bring the perpetrator to authorities? Would it be wrong to apprehend a purse snatcher if one had the ability to do so? A pick pocket? A drunk and disorderly person harrassing some senior citizen less able to defend herself? A professional dog walker who refuses to clean up after several of his wards make a poop? A private citizen who allows his dog to leave a steaming pile of crap in the middle of a well traveled sidewalk? Unreasonable arrests will be deterred by exposure to false arrest, false imprisonment, defamation etc claims by the wrongfully detained person.
In reply to Davidglen's comment distinguishing between misdemeanors and felonies, while what he says may be the law in Buenos Aires, the law in most US jurisdictions is that a citizen's arrest is authorized for any misdemeanor committed in the presence of the citizen effecting the arrest. The arrest for felonies doesn't even require that the criminal act be committed within the presence/observation of the arrestor, but I can not now recall the exact parameters for effecting an arrest in the case of a felony. Moreover, if I recall correctly, the law of civil liability provides protection for claims such as false arrest, fales imprisonment, defamation, etc based upon an erroneous, but reasonably executed citizen's arrest.

If private citizens could arrest irresponsible and anti-social dog owners for not picking up after their animal, there would be a lot less dog shit on BA sidewalks. Even the possibility of such an arrest would be a deterrence to violations.

 

[tanvimil]

too good to be true