Buses

[steveinbsas]

Steve,... Do you advocate the continuation of malnutrition and starvation just because it is the norm in some parts of the world?/quote]

Sergio, What do you expect to accomplish by asking such a repugnant, insinuating question? It is beneath intelligent discourse.

Smoking in restaurants was the norm here until a few years ago. Fortunately, that has since changed, and I applaud it.

I think buses that pollute less would be great, and the sooner the better.

Until this one, my posts in this thread were in response to a newcomer's attitude towards Argentina and making comparisons with the US that the natives often may not appreciate.

 

[sergio]

Steve, Obviously I was being sarcastic. Sorry you were so bothered by my comment. I was reacting to what I perceived to be your belief that expats should just accept things as they are here and not try to change anything because that is the way the locals like it and we have no right to differ. If I misunderstood, I am sorry. I have read, over and over again on this forum, comments by expats defending everything in this country, no matter how retrograde. The argument is usually that it is worse back home (back home invariably being the USA). I have never accepted this mentality. Maybe I consider myself more a citizen of the world and less just a citizen of a country I began life in due to an accident of birth! You cite smoking in restaurants. I lived here for many years when smoking was permitted in restaurants. I can even remember smoking on intercity buses. It was a nightmare. As someone who suffers from asthma, I can tell you that the attitude of many Argentines at that time was one of insensitivity and selfishness. The smoking bans that now exist came long after the US and Europe imposed restrictions. I have no doubt that the example of these countries and the growing consciousness of Argentines that smoking is bad (a conscious that resulted from outside influences) led to the smoking ban in BA. It is sometimes necessary to tell people why that kind of behavior is wrong and harmful and sometimes necessary to point out that there are parts of the world in which things are different. Needless to say, it shouldn't be said with rudeness or arrogance however I don't agree that one has to just shut up and censor conversation, i.e. never mention how other parts of the world work. So if you were not arguing for the status quo I apologize. Many things in this country need to change. There is a lot wrong in countries like the US but there is also good. Those good things can be adapted to Argentina and there is nothing wrong with politely suggesting that. American expats can acknowledge the problems of their own country as well. The bad does not negate the good.

 

[steveinbsas]

Thanks for the explanation, Sergio. If you had used the word "would" instead of "do" that sentence would have had a different meaning...without the implication that I advocated "the continuation of malnutrition and starvation just because it is the norm in some parts of the world." The choice of a single word can make a big difference in the meaning of a sentence and how it is perceived.

Unfortunately, I don't think expats have much "power" to change things in Argentina, though it's perfectly normal to make comments about the negative aspects of life here. I would advise newcomers to avoid telling Argentinians that conditions are better US as they complain about conditions here. The OP also stated that the city buses here were the worst he's ever seen. There are bus systems in other Latin American cities that are even worse. Perhaps he just hasn't traveled extensively in SA. Some of the bus lines in BA do have newer, quieter, and less polluting coaches, but they aren't as noticeable as the ones that sound like 747's belching out thick black clouds of diesel exhaust.

Since the day of my arrival in BA I have believed that the single best action that would improve the quality if life here would be to enact pollution standards for all (new) motor vehicles (including cars and trucks) manufactured or sold in Argentina. This would eventually help resolve the problem, but vehicle generated air pollution would obviously continue for years. I have shared this view with Argentine friends and I have made comments on how clean air standards have improved the quality of life in major US cities, but I have been careful not to sound like Argentina is inferior. Well traveled Argentinians are aware of many of the differences between the two countries. We don't need to rub their smog filled noses in it.

 

[sergio]

Steve, I accept your point with respect to my phrasing of the question.
Of course good manners and diplomacy are always good sense when communicating with people. Well travelled Argentines know that there are better conditions in some other parts of the world. Others who have not travelled have little idea of how things COULD be here. As for expat input, some of us actually have a right to vote in municipal elections in Argentina. We pay many taxes (at least I do) and therefore deserve to have a say in matters. Most, almost all, of my Argentine friends share my views on how Argentina could improve.

 

[Joe]

Yesterday I was walking right next to a bus that blew his horn at a car that stopped in front of him - OUCH!!!

Polluting vehicles in poorer countries is the norm. I wonder if the rich world has considered funding research in low cost methods to retrofit older buses. I get the impression that there are no emissions controls at all. Instead of spending trillions of dollars on fancy zero emission vehicles for yuppies - perhaps spending a few million on retrofitting old buses would do more to reduce climate change.

I saw an old photo of BsAs with hundreds of streetcars - I'd like to back then when there was little traffic noise and fumes...

 

[sergio]

A great pity the streetcars or trams were replaced by buses. No doubt buses were seen as a sign of progress. Cities all over the US have reinstated streetcars (now called Light Rail). Buenos Aires needs to do the same. The Puerto Madero tram which goes from nowhere to nowhere (does it still run?) was supposed to be extended to Retiro Station on one end and San Telmo on the other. That would make a lot of sense but is not likely to happen, especially in this economic climate.

 

[Conorworld]

BA would be great if it had trams. It has a lot of wide streets that could cater for them. Has there been any consideration about returning them?

 

[2GuysInPM]

The Puerto Madero tram expansion project (Retiro > PM > La Boca) is approved and still underway, although it has been taking a lot longer than originally planned.

Now the K's bullet train project (BA > Rosario > Cordoba), that's another story ....Brazil will probably beat Argentina with the first LatAm bullet train.

 

[cujodu]

BA would be great if it had trams. It has a lot of wide streets that could cater for them. Has there been any consideration about returning them?

There are still trams running on Rivadavia in Caballito on weekends. I'm not sure their route but I see them on weekends.